What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event? - NCRS Discussion Boards

What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

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  • Chris E.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • November 3, 2006
    • 1326

    #91
    Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

    Originally posted by Terry McManmon (3966)
    Chris,
    Please share where you got 613 points for the engine.
    Mechanical.jpg

    Circled numbers in red sum to 613.
    Chris
    Chris Enstrom
    North Central Chapter Judging Chairman
    1967 Rally Red convertible, 327/350, 4 speed, Duntov @ Hampton in 2013, Founders @ KC in 2014, family owned since 1973
    2011 Z06, red/red

    Comment

    • Michael J.
      Extremely Frequent Poster
      • January 27, 2009
      • 7121

      #92
      Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

      Right, and that is just the cylinder case, lots more to the engine than that.
      Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New Mexico

      Comment

      • Michael W.
        Expired
        • April 1, 1997
        • 4290

        #93
        Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

        Originally posted by Chris Enstrom (46481)
        [ATTACH=CONFIG]49684[/ATTACH]

        Circled numbers in red sum to 613.
        Chris
        Max deduct for the engine case is 350- if you read the notations and instructions on the sheet.

        Comment

        • Chris E.
          Extremely Frequent Poster
          • November 3, 2006
          • 1326

          #94
          Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

          Originally posted by Michael Ward (29001)
          Max deduct for the engine case is 350- if you read the notations and instructions on the sheet.
          Wow, that's not confusing or anything. Sorry, my mistake.
          Chris Enstrom
          North Central Chapter Judging Chairman
          1967 Rally Red convertible, 327/350, 4 speed, Duntov @ Hampton in 2013, Founders @ KC in 2014, family owned since 1973
          2011 Z06, red/red

          Comment

          • Michael J.
            Extremely Frequent Poster
            • January 27, 2009
            • 7121

            #95
            Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

            Originally posted by Chris Enstrom (46481)
            Wow, that's not confusing or anything. Sorry, my mistake.
            +1, a very poorly done section so unlike all the others.
            Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New Mexico

            Comment

            • Marc S.
              Expired
              • February 17, 2013
              • 224

              #96
              Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

              Originally posted by Charles McGettrick (37465)
              We earned a Top Flight. That was the beginning of our quest for Duntov, luckily we will be judged in Kansas for the Duntov award later this year.
              Congrats on getting top flight! That is great.

              Comment

              • Terry M.
                Beyond Control Poster
                • September 30, 1980
                • 15599

                #97
                Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

                The instructions are right there on the score sheet immediately following the description. And this is why we have judges training which should also be attended by owners and ALL other members who have an interest in the NCRS awards Corvettes receive..

                BTW: This section has been explained here repeatedly and has been this way for over a decade -- maybe closer to two decades. It, and a lot of other good information about judging, is explained in the NCRS Judging Reference Manual. We do our best to make all this easy to understand -- including placing the words close at hand.
                Terry

                Comment

                • Terry M.
                  Beyond Control Poster
                  • September 30, 1980
                  • 15599

                  #98
                  Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

                  Originally posted by Michael Johnson (49879)
                  +1, a very poorly done section so unlike all the others.
                  Mike,
                  It is not unlike all the others. Any item that is covered by the Standard Deductions is judged differently than all the other items. We use CDECIF except for Standard Deductions. Some of those are:
                  Paint
                  Engine
                  glass
                  battery
                  tires
                  headlamps
                  parts replaced with stainless steel
                  and the car's ID tags
                  Terry

                  Comment

                  • Joe C.
                    Expired
                    • August 31, 1999
                    • 4598

                    #99
                    350 or 388

                    Originally posted by Terry McManmon (3966)
                    The instructions are right there on the score sheet immediately following the description. And this is why we have judges training which should also be attended by owners and ALL other members who have an interest in the NCRS awards Corvettes receive.. BTW: This section has been explained here repeatedly and has been this way for over a decade -- maybe closer to two decades. It, and a lot of other good information about judging, is explained in the NCRS Judging Reference Manual. We do our best to make all this easy to understand -- including placing the words close at hand.
                    Although a frequent critic of certain aspects of the NCRS, I have to agree here. I can't see any better way that the instructions could have been written. Very logical, straightforward and intuitive. Judges training not necessary to clarify anything here.

                    It has been a long established fact that many people who gravitate toward technical and vocational careers and hobbies have limited and substandard reading and writing skills. Perhaps some adult education courses to sharpen these skills are in order.

                    Notwithstanding the above, it is absurd that once the cylinder case is judged as a full deduct (350 points in "A"), that the stamp pad surface (38 points in "D")must still be judged. It is, after all, an integral part of the block, and should be exempt from further deduct if the block has the wrong casting number. Clearly, the instructions call for a total sectional value of 350 points. The narrative and parenthetical instruction call for 350 + 38 ("E") = 388 sectional points. This is clear................right?

                    ..............UNLESS...................

                    the parenthetical instruction should read: " .............skip sections B, C, D and E................"
                    rather than: "...........skip sections B, C, and D........."

                    So......................YES..................the total deduction for the cylinder case is either 350 or 388 points, just like it sez in the instructions. How can it be any clearer than that?
                    Last edited by Joe C.; December 21, 2013, 12:30 PM.

                    Comment

                    • Jim R.
                      Very Frequent User
                      • June 30, 2001
                      • 643

                      Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

                      Hi Marc you can expect judges looking over under and inside a corvette with watches on wrist, rings on fingers and John wayne belt buckles and a nervous owner hoping they don't scratch his 10,000 dollar paint job, follow along with the judging papers and enjoy.
                      JR

                      Comment

                      • Gary C.
                        Administrator
                        • October 1, 1982
                        • 17659

                        Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

                        Always ask the owner to open doors, etc. The owner may tell you it's OK for you to open whatever. But it's proper to ask each time. Lastly, NEVER set in the seat!
                        NCRS Texas Chapter
                        https://www.ncrstexas.org/

                        https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61565408483631

                        Comment

                        • Marc S.
                          Expired
                          • February 17, 2013
                          • 224

                          Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

                          I am trying to figure out what is going on here. I am reading the owner is the one to touch the car. Lots of hands in the cookie jar on this one. Anyone know what is going on here? Who are the players here? How many judges are there on one car? If more than one are the scores averaged among them to give a final score?

                          Comment

                          • Vinnie P.
                            Editor NCRS Restorer Magazine
                            • May 31, 1990
                            • 1567

                            Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

                            Originally posted by Marc Siegel (58097)
                            I found another judging photo. I was told that the owner is supposed to only touch the car. Is this in the rulebook or proper etiquette? There are a lot of hands in the cookie jar here. I am curious to know what is going on here. Take a look!

                            Marc...I don't know who told you the owner is the only one who is supposed to touch the car...but it's standard practice and should be the owner's responsibility to remove any parts that need to be removed for judging, not the judges...and some of these parts are the distributor shielding, the spare tire lock & drop of spare tire...whenever I've judged interiors, I've always asked the judge if I could open the door...same goes for the exterior when judging fit etc...and when I've done a PV, and am doing some of the operations, I always ask if I can open and shut the doors & work the locks as well as the windows etc...if the owner says yes, then I proceed...and I've never had an owner refuse me anything...the judges just need to be respectful of the car...they are allowed to touch it as they are judging different areas...understand, this is just my 2 cents worth...others may chime in and add more...

                            Comment

                            • Michael J.
                              Extremely Frequent Poster
                              • January 27, 2009
                              • 7121

                              Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New Mexico

                              Comment

                              • Marc S.
                                Expired
                                • February 17, 2013
                                • 224

                                Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

                                Originally posted by Vinnie Peters (17535)
                                Marc...I don't know who told you the owner is the only one who is supposed to touch the car...but it's standard practice and should be the owner's responsibility to remove any parts that need to be removed for judging, not the judges...and some of these parts are the distributor shielding, the spare tire lock & drop of spare tire...whenever I've judged interiors, I've always asked the judge if I could open the door...same goes for the exterior when judging fit etc...and when I've done a PV, and am doing some of the operations, I always ask if I can open and shut the doors & work the locks as well as the windows etc...if the owner says yes, then I proceed...and I've never had an owner refuse me anything...the judges just need to be respectful of the car...they are allowed to touch it as they are judging different areas...understand, this is just my 2 cents worth...others may chime in and add more...
                                There are a lot of folks that told me. Too many to list. I know one of them is on this forum and he is Canadian. But, yeah several. I guess the judges CAN touch the car as they deem necessary then. Thank for the reply.

                                Comment

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