What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

[Michael W.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

There are a lot of folks that told me. Too many to list. I know one of them is on this forum and he is Canadian. But, yeah several. I guess the judges CAN touch the car as they deem necessary then. Thank for the reply.

Vinnie's remarks are spot on. It's bystanders/non participants that should keep their mitts to themselves or ask permission. Just like at any car show really.

[Marc S.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

Vinnie's remarks are spot on. It's bystanders/non participants that should keep their mitts to themselves or ask permission. Just like at any car show really.

Also the OJ needs to keep his or her meat hooks off the car as well. Hey how many judges and observer judges will be at the event in kissimmee? Will there be more OJs than judges there?

[Patrick H.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

Hey how many judges and observer judges will be at the event in kissimmee? Will there be more OJs than judges there?

Judges - just check how many classes there are, consider 6-8 per class and you'll be close.
I use 6-8 even though there are 10 per class. Lots of judges actually judge both days, so you really can't count 10 per class per day.

There may be 2 OJs, there may be 20. In my experience most OJs hang around with a team for a little while and then move on to a different section or class. They tend to hang around longer if they know you and really want to learn a certain class or section.
You will see more people at the Advanced Judging School than there will be OJ'ing. In part that's because there is a lot to learn at the AJS, and it offers more points. Yes, we're almost all shameless in pursuit of judging points when possible.

If I were you, which I'm not, I would visit the AJS for one of the days and make that a priority. Spend the other day as an OJ to see the judging in process. You will then get to participate in both processes.

In addition, I wouldn't worry so much about what's going to happen. There is no test for OJs at the end of the day. Be flexible, and you'll do fine.

[Chris E.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

The instructions are right there on the score sheet immediately following the description. And this is why we have judges training which should also be attended by owners and ALL other members who have an interest in the NCRS awards Corvettes receive..

BTW: This section has been explained here repeatedly and has been this way for over a decade -- maybe closer to two decades. It, and a lot of other good information about judging, is explained in the NCRS Judging Reference Manual. We do our best to make all this easy to understand -- including placing the words close at hand.

Terry, my mistake. I didn't fully understand the process of that section. Now I get it. Next time we revise the sheets, might I suggest that those boxes be indented so it is even more painfully obvious to the novice judge what the process is? And also add the letter C next to VIN derivative.

[Michael W.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

With all due respect, learning how to judge by reading the score sheets for the first time during a meet does neither the car owner nor the judge much good. Every judging school I've been to started off with basics like how to score an engine casing. Judging paint has far more to it than is written on the score sheets as another example. Being familiar with the associated matrix is essential.

[Joe C.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

Instructions very logical, straightforward and intuitive. Judges training not necessary to clarify anything here.

It has been a long established fact that many people who gravitate toward technical and vocational careers and hobbies have limited and substandard reading and writing skills. Perhaps some adult education courses to sharpen these skills are in order.

Notwithstanding the above, it is absurd that once the cylinder case is judged as a full deduct (350 points in "A"), that the stamp pad surface (38 points in "D")must still be judged. It is, after all, an integral part of the block, and should be exempt from further deduct if the block has the wrong casting number. Clearly, the instructions call for a total sectional value of 350 points. The narrative and parenthetical instruction call for 350 + 38 ("E") = 388 sectional points. This is clear................right?

..............UNLESS...................

the parenthetical instruction should read: " .............skip sections B, C, D and E................"
rather than: "...........skip sections B, C, and D........."

So......................YES..................the total deduction for the cylinder case is either 350 or 388 points, just like it sez in duh instructions. How can it be more clearer dan dat?

[Michael J.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

Yes, exactly, clear as MUD!

[John H.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

Notwithstanding the above, it is absurd that once the cylinder case is judged as a full deduct (350 points in "A"), that the stamp pad surface (38 points in "D")must still be judged. It is, after all, an integral part of the block, and should be exempt from further deduct if the block has the wrong casting number. Clearly, the instructions call for a total sectional value of 350 points. The narrative and parenthetical instruction call for 350 + 38 ("E") = 388 sectional points. This is clear................right?

..............UNLESS...................

the parenthetical instruction should read: " .............skip sections B, C, D and E................"
rather than: "...........skip sections B, C, and D........."

So......................YES..................the total deduction for the cylinder case is either 350 or 388 points, just like it sez in duh instructions. How can it be more clearer dan dat?

I don't know what you're reading, but NOTHING is judged if the casting number isn't correct; a 350-point deduction is taken, and you move on to the cylinder heads. Period. The simple instructions make it pretty clear to me:

A. Casting number & case configuration (if incorrect, deduct 350 and do not judge or score B,C, or D below). B is casting date, C is machine code stamp and assembly VIN stamp, and D is pad surface.

What's not to like?

[Don H.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

OK, where is that Siegel guy who opened this can of worms?

[Joe C.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

I don't know what you're reading, but NOTHING is judged if the casting number isn't correct; a 350-point deduction is taken, and you move on to the cylinder heads. Period. The simple instructions make it pretty clear to me:

A. Casting number & case configuration (if incorrect, deduct 350 and do not judge or score B,C, or D below). B is casting date, C is machine code stamp and assembly VIN stamp, and D is pad surface.

What's not to like?

.....................which still leaves "E" to be judged.

[Marc S.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

Someone asked about the guy that opened this can of worms? I haven't seen him. now I am getting nervous. All these knowledgeable and experienced folks trying to figure things out. How am I gonna figure it out? Ill be easy to find though. I will be the guy with the confused face trying to figure out how not to break a pencil lead writing. Taking a deep breath saying everything will be okay.

[Michael W.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

What's not to like?

Scoring sheets up to and including '67 read as you describe- A,B,C,D, With C being engine assembly code AND VIN derivative. D is pad surface. From '68 onwards, C is assembly stamp, D is VIN derivative and a newly introduced E is pad surface.

Makes no never mind except that the instructions "If incorrect, deduct xxx & do not judge or score C or D below" no longer make sense. Since the revision date of the sheets is 2002, I'm amazed that no one caught this.

While we're nit-picking, the '78-'82 sheets on line E specify "Absence of paint, rust, grease, dirt or other conditions which obscures pad & presence of normal factory machining marks " which earlier sheets do not. Again, makes no never mind except that pads came from the with a coat of paint on the. Since it's Marc's post that brought all this up, I vote that he not be forced to buy lunches for all the the judges and just pick up the bar tab instead.

[Michael J.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

Since it's Marc's post that brought all this up, I vote that he not be forced to buy lunches for all the the judges and just pick up the bar tab instead.

[Don H.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

Scoring sheets up to and including '67 read as you describe- A,B,C,D, With C being engine assembly code AND VIN derivative. D is pad surface. From '68 onwards, C is assembly stamp, D is VIN derivative and a newly introduced E is pad surface.

hold up there pilgrim; they made vettes after 67?

[Michael J.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

hold up there pilgrim; they made vettes after 67?

+1, wow, you learn something new about these cars everyday!