69 VIN Rivets

[Brad H.]

Guys,
My 69 has the special rivets attaching the VIN tag unpainted. I have seen them both ways. Were they painted black or left natural?
Thanks,
Brad

[Brad H.]

69 VIN Rivets

I have searched the archives and can not find a definitive answer on the VIN rivet type or finish. My VIN had to be temporarily removed due to a rust issue under it. The restoration shop did a perfect job and you can not tell anything was done. The original VIN tag was reinstalled using what they say are correct rivets and they may be but I would feel much better if I knew for sure. They used what I believe is a Rosette rivet which is sort of a flower looking rivet head. Is there any chance any of you might have a photo of these rivets installed in a known correct car. I'm sure this is an old redundant question but I can 't answer it on my own.
Thanks Very Much For Your Help!
Brad

[John H.]

Re: 69 VIN Rivets

I have searched the archives and can not find a definitive answer on the VIN rivet type or finish. My VIN had to be temporarily removed due to a rust issue under it. The restoration shop did a perfect job and you can not tell anything was done. The original VIN tag was reinstalled using what they say are correct rivets and they may be but I would feel much better if I knew for sure. They used what I believe is a Rosette rivet which is sort of a flower looking rivet head. Is there any chance any of you might have a photo of these rivets installed in a known correct car. I'm sure this is an old redundant question but I can 't answer it on my own.
Thanks Very Much For Your Help!
Brad

Brad -

Rosette rivets are correct, shown in photo below.


1967VE~2.JPG

[Brad H.]

Re: 69 VIN Rivets

Thanks very much John! They did it right fortunately! Last question: Were the painted black or left natural?
I really appreciate it John,
Brad

[Terry M.]

Re: 69 vin tag rivets

Guys,
My 69 has the special rivets attaching the VIN tag unpainted. I have seen them both ways. Were they painted black or left natural?
Thanks,
Brad

The VIN tag was in place when the body received the black-out operation. For C3s the black-out operation included not only the engine compartment, but the windshield wiper storage area, A-pillars (with VIN attached), after a while it included the upper hinge area of the door and for all early C3s (1970-1972) the vent openings in the rear deck. It also included the interior storage areas as well. Read the TIM&JG, this is all covered there.

[Brad H.]

Re: 69 vin tag rivets

Thanks Terry! I've read the JG multiple times and saw no description of what the rivets looked like. John was nice enough to send me a photo which really eased my mind. I did not see a definitive answer in the JG about the black out for that specific area. I have often seen the rivets left natural at Bloomington so I apologize for asking this dumb question and will not again. Is this forum for information or not? If the real experts such as yourself are aggravated by such questions don't answer. I am a B767 Captain and ex- F-4 Phantom fighter pilot and if asked a question from you I would not tell you to go read the book. This fraternity is getting smaller every day we get older so we should be fostering this group not talking down to them.
Thanks for your reply!
Brad

[Terry M.]

Re: 69 vin tag rivets

Thanks Terry! I've read the JG multiple times and saw no description of what the rivets looked like. John was nice enough to send me a photo which really eased my mind. I did not see a definitive answer in the JG about the black out for that specific area. I have often seen the rivets left natural at Bloomington so I apologize for asking this dumb question and will not again. Is this forum for information or not? If the real experts such as yourself are aggravated by such questions don't answer. I am a B767 Captain and ex- F-4 Phantom fighter pilot and if asked a question from you I would not tell you to go read the book. This fraternity is getting smaller every day we get older so we should be fostering this group not talking down to them.
Thanks for your reply!
Brad

You are misreading my post, but if my manor bothers you I can refrain from posting. It will be easier for me.

My only information was with respect to your question regarding paint. I saw John's photo of a mid-year VIN. The painting, or more accurately lack of it, is different for mid-years than 1970-1972 C3s.

No offense to your skills as a pilot, but I don't see the relevance to this endeavor. I could talk about my service in the Air Force long long ago, but that too has no relevance. I am sure all of us possess skills that extend far beyond Corvettes and their method of production, again no relevance. I know one member, who has passed, who was literally a rocket scientist, and two others who are employed by DOE & DOD in the nuclear field. I believe we are both reasonably intelligent, as are most others who post here. Again that has nothing to do with the matters at hand.

If I have offended you, I am sorry, but my sails are set the way they are and I have no intention of changing.

[Brad H.]

Re: 69 vin tag rivets

Terry you can justify it any way you like. Frankly it's obvious after many years with NCRS that lots of folks fear asking questions for fear of attitudes like this. Please keep posting to others. I will be leaving this group. Look around and see if anyone in this organization has other than grey hair! No need to reply. I got what I expected.

[Joe L.]

Re: 69 VIN Rivets

Thanks very much John! They did it right fortunately! Last question: Were the painted black or left natural?
I really appreciate it John,
Brad

Brad------


The rivet heads were painted black. However, it's fairly moot because little, if any, of the rivet heads can be seen since the "cutout" for the VIN plate in the pillar post trim is not really wide enough to expose them. On my car, just a tiny amount of one rivet can be seen.

[Brad H.]

Re: 69 VIN Rivets

Thanks Joe! On my car the rivet heads can be seen if someone looks hard. This was important to me because of the possibility of questions about the VIN tag legitimacy. I have the Corvette America reproduction Pilar post covers and it doesn't cover the rivets as well as the original. As always, thanks so much for your help and expertise!
Brad

[Kevin G.]

Re: 69 vin tag rivets

Terry you can justify it any way you like. Frankly it's obvious after many years with NCRS that lots of folks fear asking questions for fear of attitudes like this. Please keep posting to others. I will be leaving this group. Look around and see if anyone in this organization has other than grey hair! No need to reply. I got what I expected.

My hair is still half brown?

I do happen to agree with the above! But, we're not all alike........Once you get to know these guys, you will see, they are there and willing to help. Read,buy,borrow the TM&G is just Terry's way of suggesting where to find the best source for your answers, that is all.....

This question you ask, concerning vin tags, rivets could have gone in a much different direction.......

[Paul O.]

Re: 69 vin tag rivets

Brad

I think as Kevin stated Terry was just trying to inform you about the location in the TM&G of the black out process. We all have a different way to get to a point I for one will tell you to much information to get to that point. Terry on the other hand keeps it short and to the point. My recommendation would be not to leave the NCRS and ask any question you need an answer to. The amount of knowledge in the NCRS far exceeds any other person or organization.

I am not answering for Terry but I saw him yesterday at our Cincinnati Chapter swap-meet. He and some other member drove down from Chicago area and then drove back. That is more then 5 hours each way plus the time for the swap meet and eating and you know other things. All of them were there to shop and visit. Plus any question that need an answer Terry and the other gentlemen help all who needed it. With that said he may have been a bit tired when he answered your question and it was shorter then normal. I would give him a break on that.

On a different note you fly B767 what airline and model do you fly. I am a retired Delta AMT Line Tech 40 plus years working in aviation. Former USMC worked on UH-1, CH-46, CH-53, A-4C and E's. Delta from DC8s to B777 and a Piper Dakota.

[Alan S.]

Re: 69 vin tag rivets

Hi Brad,
Here's a picture of the vin tag rivets as I was disassembling my 71.
I'm not sure if the black-out sequence/timing changed from 69 to 71.
Regards,
Alan

[Michael D.]

Re: 69 vin tag rivets

It is my understanding early C3 VIN and trim tags were attached at a station on the assembly line after paint and blackout.

[Brad H.]

Re: 69 vin tag rivets

Thanks to everyone who answered! I only brought up the B767 Capt thing so that the replier would know I was not some kid who bought a Vette and didn't bother to do my homework before asking a question. I have every piece of published information there is on the 69 and I just could not tell for sure what the VIN rivet finish was. Alan, thanks for that picture! That is exactly what I was talking about. The rivets appear natural finish on yours. The expertise of this group is simply an invaluable tool to many trying to restore a car. I'm 56 and getting grey myself. I think we all need to be very cognizant of how we respond to questions on this forum. It is the nature of the beast that there will be new and lesser educated folks coming into the forum and that is a very good thing. I have read so many responses with curt and demeaning answers over the years. I know from talking to friends that many times folks are reluctant to ask a question for fear of a demeaning answer. This organization has become a largely older folks gang, me included. We must realize that how we are perceived will either preserve or destroy this group. We can't afford to end up as a bunch of really old men with canes walking around wondering where everyone went. This issue has been bothering me for some time and I almost didn't post the VIN rivet thing fearing a negative response. I sincerely appreciate all those experts out there who have been kind enough to help me through the years. John Hinkley and Joe Lucia are true gentlemen and I can't say enough about their contributions!
Thanks to you all!
Brad