battery deductions

[Gary J.]

Re: battery deductions

I thought that the Technical Information Manual and Judging Guide Errata sheets is for that is in the forum, but just that one entry, no updates, why no updates if things are changing?

[Greg W.]

Re: battery deductions

I have to say that after reading all this thatstarted about a battery , I do agree with mike. If there is no standard to judge to than how do we know the judge is right or not. Do we just prepare for anything that may be brought up. I have seen some very smart people WRONG with nothing to back it up but who there are.

[Edward J.]

Re: battery deductions

This post sounds like a good topic at the Judges retreat?? Hope to see if this can some how be can simplified. a lot of good responses on both sides.

[Mark D.]

Re: battery deductions

I have seen some very smart people WRONG with nothing to back it up but who they are.

In NCRS? If that's the case, specifically who are you referencing, what (exactly) did they say and, how did you determine they could not back it up?
Please name the person, the topic and what was said...specifically, if it were within NCRS.

Thanks,

Mark

[Michael J.]

Re: battery deductions

This post sounds like a good topic at the Judges retreat?? Hope to see if this can some how be can simplified. a lot of good responses on both sides.

Thanks Greg, and an excellent idea Ed. I would suggest a name for the session could be: "Is NCRS judging like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get"……I have used that one before in some late night sessions at the Lone Star Regional, and some people like it. I may try it out this weekend at SoCal too….

I will add a less emotive title: "How can we make NCRS judging more consistent, more fair, and more reproduceable to maintain the car judging gold standard NCRS represents?"

[Greg W.]

Re: battery deductions

It was an NCRS member but was not at a meet. I went to a friends 67 coupe that he bought new and has 42000 miles never touched to see the item in question. Never did bring it up and will not give the name , do not think it isfair. All I said was we needto prepare to something not someones personal thoughts. I could care less about the ribbon and do care if its right or not.But sometime do we really know?

[Mark D.]

Re: battery deductions

Do you guys think that, a group of enthusiasts just dreamed up what an assembly line battery 'probably' looked like and, that became the defacto standard? Do you think that there are not numerous data points that, over time, become the standard and are then entered in the TIM&JG? Do you think that, just because you have no knowledge of, and are not in possession of, a typical assembly line component, that NCRS should give you full credit?

When you guys whine enough to get your way, I'll sadly leave this organization to you. In the meantime, I'll continue to fight for the high standards this organization has created. It isn't perfect but, it's head and shoulders above what many of you pine for.

[Steve B.]

Re: battery deductions

I have to say that after reading all this thatstarted about a battery , I do agree with mike. If there is no standard to judge to than how do we know the judge is right or not. Do we just prepare for anything that may be brought up. I have seen some very smart people WRONG with nothing to back it up but who there are.

Greg, I am an owner not a judge and to me at least the standard is clear and that is "As originally produced" That goes for paint, tires, engine parts, batteries etc. Owners need to educate themselves so that they can know what to expect. Nothing in life is perfect including the judging process but all in all if you are well prepared, it works very well. To me learning and educating myself is one of the most enjoyable aspects of the hobby. Respectfully, Steve

[Greg W.]

Re: battery deductions

I agree with you Steve, Thanks.

[Michael J.]

Re: battery deductions

NCRS is the gold standard for car judging in America's car organizations, the Ford and Mopar people marvel at it and wish they had it, I know from personal experience. But, that does not mean it can't be more consistent, more fair, and more reproduceable from meet to meet and judge to judge, with better standards and documentation. Nobody minds tough judging standards, people mind facing a plethora of varying judges and their varying opinions on what is TFP, with the TIM&JG treated as a rough "guide", not a definitive document to go by that can be altered by any judge who has a mind to do it using their own personal opinions and experiences.

[Greg W.]

Re: battery deductions

Mark, That could have been a little off and out of line, ya think

[Mark D.]

Re: battery deductions

Mark, That could have been a little off and out of line, ya think

Greg,

Had I thought that, I would not have posted it.

Mark

[Terry M.]

Re: battery deductions

Having the 1968 flight judged this weekend, was unable to source a repro r59s battery in time for the event. Car has a group 24 in there now. Am I correct in assuming I will lose all possible points associated with the battery?
Thanks, Doug

Douglas
You don't tell us the brand of battery in your car.

Battery judging is a standard deduction and the percentage point assessment is called out in the Judging Reference Manual. That assessment is based on the deviations from the OEM installed battery. I can tell you the easy part is if the battery is not an AC Delco you will lose all the points. Any other point assessment requires knowing more about the battery in your car than you have told us.

I am dismayed at the direction the judging comments has taken. The judging process is supposed to be one member helping another member improve their car. It is not an adversarial process. It is not judges vs. owners. Some of the attitudes displayed in some of these posts are not conducive to civil discourse. I recommend we all take a deep breath. Pour a stiff one if that will help, but please stay away from the keyboard after downing it. And then take another look at this tomorrow.

[Don H.]

Re: battery deductions

In regard to judging consistency, I seem to remember Roy Sinor saying they did a "test" some years ago. The same car was taken to multiple events and it received remarkably consistent scores. Sorry if I don't correctly remember all the facts exactly right, but I believe the result was very good. Also the judges are ALL volunteers. Don H.

[Michael J.]

Re: battery deductions

Douglas
You don't tell us the brand of battery in your car.

Battery judging is a standard deduction and the percentage point assessment is called out in the Judging Reference Manual. That assessment is based on the deviations from the OEM installed battery. I can tell you the easy part is if the battery is not an AC Delco you will lose all the points. Any other point assessment requires knowing more about the battery in your car than you have told us.

I am dismayed at the direction the judging comments has taken. The judging process is supposed to be one member helping another member improve their car. It is not an adversarial process. It is not judges vs. owners. Some of the attitudes displayed in some of these posts are not conducive to civil discourse. I recommend we all take a deep breath. Pour a stiff one if that will help, but please stay away from the keyboard after downing it. And then take another look at this tomorrow.

Indeed Terry, excellent advice, might I recommend a nicely aged Napoleon Armagnac, perhaps Chabot?