Can PS or PB be added to a midyear without NCRS deduction?

[Larry E.]

Re: Can PS or PB be added to a midyear without NCRS deduction?

[QUOTE=Dick Whittington (8804);685130]You will be hard pressed to get a repro trim tag by at a Regional or National. The latest and greatest versions of the tags are being called.

Don't want to steal this thread but quick question on the above statement. How many C2's pass with a trim tag that is original but came from another
Corvette. With so many for sale; if one waits one will find one with the correct corelating info on it?? Larry

[Timothy B.]

Re: Can PS or PB be added to a midyear without NCRS deduction?

In looking at the engine suffixes, I am now curious why the '66-'67 L79s were the only ones with P/S designated, while the 300 HP and the BB have no suffix to designate P/S. Why was that?

Michael,

IMO, I would say it's because the engines are assembled with a different alternator pulley but that may be a St.Louis installed part.

[Ara G.]

Re: Can PS or PB be added to a midyear without NCRS deduction?

In looking at the engine suffixes, I am now curious why the '66-'67 L79s were the only ones with P/S designated, while the 300 HP and the BB have no suffix to designate P/S. Why was that?

Mike, I am going from memory, but PS wasn't the singular item that changed an engine suffix on an L79 motor, it was PS in addition to AC that changed the engine suffix from an HT to an HP (L79 car with PS and AC and 4 speed obviously). Cheers. ARA

[Michael J.]

Re: Can PS or PB be added to a midyear without NCRS deduction?

Thanks Ara, but still curious why only the L79, as the 300HP and BBs also had A/C, AR, etc. but no P/S associated with their suffixes.

[Terry M.]

Re: Can PS or PB be added to a midyear without NCRS deduction?

Michael,
There had to be some difference in the engine assembly as shipped from the engine assembly plant to merit the different suffix code.. Since I don't know midyears I would guess the difference is something to do with the accessory mounting brackets. Apparently the other engines you cite had the relevant brackets mounted at the car assembly plant and thus didn't require different suffix codes.

[Michael W.]

Re: Can PS or PB be added to a midyear without NCRS deduction?

This question is not about "ethics"!!!

You're right. It's about who's really fooling who. Let's play a game of finding out how much we can change a car away from it's as delivered config. and still point proudly to our Top Flight ribbons hanging on the wall.

Look what Daddy got kids!

[Dick W.]

Re: Can PS or PB be added to a midyear without NCRS deduction?

[QUOTE=Larry Evoskis (16324);685139]

You will be hard pressed to get a repro trim tag by at a Regional or National. The latest and greatest versions of the tags are being called.

Don't want to steal this thread but quick question on the above statement. How many C2's pass with a trim tag that is original but came from another
Corvette. With so many for sale; if one waits one will find one with the correct corelating info on it?? Larry

I would think that there are many judges that keep a record of body to VIN #'s. If one is very much out of sequence, it would raise red flags to start looking elsewhere.

While I do not have a record such as I referenced, when I am retained to inspect a car for a potential buyer, I do quick mental math to figure out if it is a logical combination of numbers. I have seen cars that the body number would be logical for a 20,000 VIN car be on a car with VIN under 1,000. And I did not have to stay at a Holiday Inn last night to figure that one out

[Larry M.]

Re: Can PS or PB be added to a midyear without NCRS deduction?

Thanks Ara, but still curious why only the L79, as the 300HP and BBs also had A/C, AR, etc. but no P/S associated with their suffixes.

John Hinckley explained this to us at least a few times. This info should be in the archives.

A 327/350 HP with power steering OR with air conditioning will have a HT suffix (HD for Calif). If both PS and AC are specified/combined then the suffix changes to HP (KH for Calif).

Larry

[Michael J.]

Re: Can PS or PB be added to a midyear without NCRS deduction?

Thanks Terry, I suspect you are right, something different about the L79 with all those options. I just now looked back at the judging sheets on my '66 L79 coupe, judged at chapter and regionals a couple of years ago. It has a suffix of HT, or just L79, mt. It had P/S, and no judges made any deducts about that on any part of it. So, if it was added later, then it "fooled" the judges, or it could have been original and that suffix code is not definitive for with or without P/S. IMO, it is not about "fooling" the judges wrt what the car actually left St. Louis with, it is the factory correct appearance of what it could have left St. Louis with in context with everything else about the car.

[Michael J.]

Re: Can PS or PB be added to a midyear without NCRS deduction?

Thanks for that Larry, the Black Book doesn't show it that way for HT, nor does the NCRS Corvette Spec. Guide. But good to know.

[John H.]

Re: Can PS or PB be added to a midyear without NCRS deduction?

Assuming I used remanufactured original parts (are they date-coded for PS or PB units??), and was carefull to change any related parts correctly, is it possible that judges wouldn't notice they weren't O.E., or wouldn't care, therefore no deduction?

Adding power steering or power brakes is a walk in the park if you use the correct parts and add them as the plant did. The '66-'67 engine suffix code isn't affected unless the car is an L-79 and has air conditioning, and it doesn't affect the Trim ECL.

[Jim R.]

Re: Can PS or PB be added to a midyear without NCRS deduction?

You didn't say what engine or year your car is...For instance a solid-lifter small block (L84 or L76) will not accept power steering. The 6 quart oil pan is too deep and the power steering slave cylinder will not clear it.

I will agree I would feel a little more comfortable with a dual circuit hydraulic brake system but as long as the lines are in good condition I'm not overly concerned. I really like the pedal feel of a non-power brake car that is setup with the correct piston lip seals. If you have O-ring seals then all bets are off. I've heard they do require more pedal effort.

With the narrow tires that would be correct for a midyear I don't feel they require that much steering effort anyway. The only place I could see where it could be an issue is when you are parallel parking which is highly unlikely you would be doing much with a old Corvette. Have you had the steering box checked to make sure it's within spec?


Edit: I checked your profile and it says you have a 1966 car. So that would rule out your car being a solid-lifter small block.


Mike

I will have to disagree with you on the orings, my breaks have never been better to me the lip seals are worthless and will eventually leak, been through it several times and the orings are the only way to go IMO.

[Larry E.]

Re: Can PS or PB be added to a midyear without NCRS deduction?

You're right. It's about who's really fooling who. Let's play a game of finding out how much we can change a car away from it's as delivered config. and still point proudly to our Top Flight ribbons hanging on the wall.

Look what Daddy got kids!

FWIW:
I'm not sure that a "Top Flight" represents that. (The way this perticular car came from the factory). What the "Top Flight" award means is that this
perticular car is "TFP" as it sits. No possible way to verify that nothing was changed as indicated in the above statements. Larry

[Michael W.]

Re: Can PS or PB be added to a midyear without NCRS deduction?

FWIW:
I'm not sure that a "Top Flight" represents that. (The way this perticular car came from the factory). What the "Top Flight" award means is that this
perticular car is "TFP" as it sits. No possible way to verify that nothing was changed as indicated in the above statements. Larry

Then why is there a process to address cars with added/deleted options? The goal of Flight Judging is to present a given car exactly as delivered to the first owner- not what it could have or should have been. This is clearly spelled out.

If adding PS/PB is OK, how about changing the engine option? The car could have come with a higher HP version and it's easy enough to make it look like TFP.

[Larry E.]

Re: Can PS or PB be added to a midyear without NCRS deduction?

Then why is there a process to address cars with added/deleted options? The goal of Flight Judging is to present a given car exactly as delivered to the first owner- not what it could have or should have been. This is clearly spelled out.

If adding PS/PB is OK, how about changing the engine option? The car could have come with a higher HP version and it's easy enough to make it look like TFP.

I guess what I'm try to say is that unless you are the original owner of the car; there is no way of knowing what changes have been made. All a judge
can do is look it over and try to verify that it is "TFP". Nothing more nothing less. Larry