Disqualification: VIN Tag

[Clark K.]

A fellow Corvette collector/NCRS member had his car disqualified today because the judge told him that it was apparent that the VIN tag had been removed at some point and then reinstalled. I believe the issue was NTF rivets, he told me. The owner was shocked since he didn't know there was a problem with his car and this was the first time he had brought it to a NCRS meet.

I have tried to look in my various NCRS manuals/guides and cannot find this issue. Is this correct, to not judge a car on the showfloor due to NTF rivets on the VIN tag? The owner of the car is going to contact the seller to get a clarification since he was told that the car was "matching numbers". Of course, I told the owner that matching numbers usually has nothing to do with VIN and/or trim tags.
-Clark

[Michael G.]

Re: Disqualification: VIN Tag

A great deal of information has been collected over the years (on our cars) that has heightened our awareness for valid and correct identifiers. If the judges indicated the VIN had been removed they had good reason to make that decisionl. It's not done frivolously and a tough conversation to have with the owner. It's an unfortunate incident for all parties. As you may already know the rivets are a particular style as well the uniqueness of the trim plate. Both are almost impossibly to fake.

.....and yes, it is a correct decision if it is suspected a tag has been tampered with.

[Loren L.]

Re: Disqualification: VIN Tag

It's a bit hard to comment on when you do NOT describe the problem - "believe" its the rivets doesn't meet the standard necessary for accurate comment from the members of the Judging Manual Team, the Judging Chairman or the actual judges that were at the meet. If this happened at a Regional, what was the ruling at the Chapter level? Simply not enough information.

[Bruce B.]

Re: Disqualification: VIN Tag

It is my understanding that if there is a problem with the VIN the owner has the option to remove the car from the judging field and the car is not recorded as being judged.
That allows the owner to correct the difficiency and have the car judged at a later date.
Was that the case with this car?
Someone with more knowledge please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Michael J.]

Re: Disqualification: VIN Tag

Tampering with VIN tags is an extremely serious matter, and NCRS and the judges have been involved many times in cases around such. They know to be very sure and careful about calling this out. But it obviously must be disqualification, too serious to handle any other way. And it is disheartening and sad for an owner to find out about such shenanigans at the judging meet, I feel for him. Some of us have been welcomed into the Corvette hobby by having a dealer or seller give us the tacit impression and understanding that "numbers match" and all is legit, when we find out later (and too late) at the first judging that it was a semantics lesson on what "numbers match" means vs. "the real deal". Some dealers just believe in caveat emptor, I think we should all as well, trust but verify with anything Corvette from anybody. My 2 cents only.

[Joe L.]

Re: Disqualification: VIN Tag

A fellow Corvette collector/NCRS member had his car disqualified today because the judge told him that it was apparent that the VIN tag had been removed at some point and then reinstalled. I believe the issue was NTF rivets, he told me. The owner was shocked since he didn't know there was a problem with his car and this was the first time he had brought it to a NCRS meet.

I have tried to look in my various NCRS manuals/guides and cannot find this issue. Is this correct, to not judge a car on the showfloor due to NTF rivets on the VIN tag? The owner of the car is going to contact the seller to get a clarification since he was told that the car was "matching numbers". Of course, I told the owner that matching numbers usually has nothing to do with VIN and/or trim tags.
-Clark

Clark-----

If the car is an early 1965, I hope this is not a case in which it was deemed tampered with because it had regular pop-rivets for VIN tag attachment. I believe that early 1965's did use regular pop-rivets.

In any event, the owner should immediately check the VIN derivative stamped on the frame. In fact, as I've said many times before, folks should ALWAYS check that before they purchase any Corvette.

[Rob M.]

Re: Disqualification: VIN Tag

was the tag it self dubious or was the tag itself considered legitimated?

[Bruce B.]

Re: Disqualification: VIN Tag

My 65 coupe vin number 005xx has both the vin and trim tag fastened with "regular" pop-rivets.
The pop-rivets on the vin are about 3/16" dia and the trim tag rivits are about 5/16" in diameter (sizes are approximate).

[Jim D.]

Re: Disqualification: VIN Tag

Clark-----

If the car is an early 1965, I hope this is not a case in which it was deemed tampered with because it had regular pop-rivets for VIN tag attachment. I believe that early 1965's did use regular pop-rivets.

In any event, the owner should immediately check the VIN derivative stamped on the frame. In fact, as I've said many times before, folks should ALWAYS check that before they purchase any Corvette.

According to Noland's survey, all 65's up to #7793 used regular pop rivets. After that, there was mixed usage between regular and rosette rivets. The last car reported using regular rivets was #9990.

[Clark K.]

Re: Disqualification: VIN Tag

It's a bit hard to comment on when you do NOT describe the problem - "believe" its the rivets doesn't meet the standard necessary for accurate comment from the members of the Judging Manual Team, the Judging Chairman or the actual judges that were at the meet. If this happened at a Regional, what was the ruling at the Chapter level? Simply not enough information.

Loren, I wrote all the information that the owner of the car told me. He told me that it was over the rivets but I did not ask for more information. I was sorry for the guy and didn't want to add to his grief by asking questions. I have attended four previous meets at all three levels and just had not heard of this happening, before yesterday.

[Clark K.]

Re: Disqualification: VIN Tag

was the tag it self dubious or was the tag itself considered legitimated?

Rob, I got the impression that it was only because of NTF rivets, as if some previous owner drilled out the rivets, removed the VIN tag and then later reinstalled it. I have no clue whether there was any reference that the tag/plate, itself, was considered bogus.
-Clark

[Clark K.]

Re: Disqualification: VIN Tag

The car in question is a '65 Maroon/maroon Convertible with 327/350hp engine. Why would anyone remove a VIN tag...to paint the car, perhaps? There is, in my opinion, rampant scams with high end cars, such as big block cars and rare-optioned cars. But, I just don't see the profit motive on this car.
-Clark

[Bruce B.]

Re: Disqualification: VIN Tag

Clark,
The profit motive is alive and well on this car which depending on condition could be worth from $30,000 to $40,000 +++ IMHO

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Disqualification: VIN Tag

If the vin/trim tag is origional but with replaced rivets can a Corvette still be judged? I know a repo in & trim tag are a NO NO.

[Clem Z.]

Re: Disqualification: VIN Tag

why can't the judges at the meet just pick up their cell phone and call the NCRS headquarters for a professional opinion of questions like this ???