Accessing Body Bolts/Nuts; Advice on lifting Body?

[Jon B.]

Hi,

I have an '71 LS5 Coupe, and was convinced by my mechanic that since we have done so much already (including a rebuilt engine), that we should go ahead and replace the fuel and brake lines. Before I knew it, I had purchased all new pre-bent lines and had cut off the old lines. It's been 6 months and the project has been stalled for various reasons, one of which is that neither my mechanic or me are certain on how to fully access all of the bolts/mounts, and also how we should lift the body.

We need to get this project back on track.

I've already begun spraying (with Kroil) the tops of the bolts I can get at without removing any housings.

I have read many archived posts here. I now realize that to access the underside of #3 and #7 bolts/mounts, one may need to cut off the fiberglass end caps on the frame.

My Questions are:

-What other panels/housings need to be removed for access to all the other body mount bolts/nuts?
Does one need in every case to buy new housings/rivets? (Hope I'm using the right terminology)

-Should we just lift one side at a time, as I've read many seem to do when not wanting or needing to go with a full body off resto? Is this safe for the existing and nice paint job on the body? (We have no way to lift other than floor jacks.)

The car is to be a very nice, mostly factory correct driver.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Jon

[Terry M.]

Re: Accessing Body Bolts/Nuts; Advice on lifting Body?

Jon,
I believe your questions about access to the body mounts will be answered in illustrations in the AIM (Assembly Instruction Manual).

[Alan S.]

Re: Accessing Body Bolts/Nuts; Advice on lifting Body?

Hi Jon,
Welcome! A new member, first post, and you're already doing some SERIOUS work on your car!
You asked about body mount bolt access and mount replacement.
The first bolt on each side is accessible from the engine compartment. The second from the area revealed when the interior kick panel at the driver's and passenger's feet is removed. The third through the small screw-in access door in the front of the rear wheel wells; and the fourth has direct access from the rear of the rear wells. You shouldn't need to cut any fiberglass.
Many times the mounts don't need to be replaced. The most typical reason for needing to replace them is rust on the # 4 mount.
I think you're headed in the right direction with the use of Kroil. It's a wonderful thing if you can get the bolts loose and out without twisting off the bolt or breaking loose the nuts that are held in captive cages. Soaking with an agent like Kroil is your best hope.
The AIM that Terry mentions is an absolute 'must have' when doing the kind of work you're involved in with your 71. There is an AIM for each year of production and they are available from the store on this site and other venders. I'd advise you stay on hold until you and your mechanic have one to study.
I lifted the body on my 71 straight up using floor jacks and wood blocks. I believe it's best to lift coupe bodies with the doors closed.
How 'together' is your car? If it's mostly assembled there is quite a long list of parts that need to be unbolted in order to do the lift.
I hope this rambling addresses some of your questions.
Order the AIM tomorrow!
Good Luck!
Regards,
Alan

[Edward J.]

Re: Accessing Body Bolts/Nuts; Advice on lifting Body?

Jon, There may be a check list of how to remove the body in the archives for your C3. There are a few things that can be hidden or forgotten.

[Jon B.]

Re: Accessing Body Bolts/Nuts; Advice on lifting Body?

Hello Alan,
Thanks for the welcome! I finally joined the NCRS, and now I wonder why I waited. A wonderful organization plus a very helpful web site.
As far as how 'together' the car is: A new rear suspension is pretty much in place. The original intent was to just redo the noisy rear which we found had sheered off bolts inside the diff., and get the car back on the road-this ultimately led to pulling the engine after checking compression which was uneven and low in several cylinders, and next thing you know, the steering column was out and everything else under the hood except the radiator support. I have cleaned and painted the empty engine compartment and cleaned and painted the underside of the frame.
So really, to lift the body, I think all that needs to be removed are the rear bumpers, parking brake cable, antenna cable and maybe drop the tank.
Seeing a photo of a '70 coupe on fire due to a burst fuel line convinced me to go ahead and replace the lines, but I have had regrets ever since cutting the old lines, which actually looked OK. Too late now, so the body must now come off to get the new lines in.
I will be ordering the AIM manual...thanks Terry for the advice on that.
I guess as far as using the Kroil penetrant, one juts hopes it will work its own way down to the caged nuts which it seems are unaccessable in the back half of the car...
Thanks so much again for your help.
Jon

[Alan S.]

Re: Accessing Body Bolts/Nuts; Advice on lifting Body?

Hi Jon,
If the doors are still on, the glass is in, and the interior is complete and in, the body is still pretty heavy.
Not too heavy to lift, but heavy enough that you should choose carefully where you lift.
Using floor jacks I lifted on the underbody but was careful about spreading the load by using 6x6 blocks and 12" square pieces of 1" plywood.
You might look at lifting on the outside lip of the rocker channels. You need to be careful that the jacks don't want to scoot away from the body as you lift.
Here's a picture of a lift using a 2 post lift but it shows the location I'm referring to. Actually it's not a body lift, but rather a body drop.
Regards,
Alan

PS: Pictures of your car in progress would be interesting to see. Hint! Hint!

[Terry M.]

Re: Accessing Body Bolts/Nuts; Advice on lifting Body?

So really, to lift the body, I think all that needs to be removed are the rear bumpers, parking brake cable, antenna cable and maybe drop the tank.
Jon

Don't forget the shift linkage and parking brake cable and speedometer cable. Having the engine compartment clear is a decided advantage.

BTW: You are presenting an excellent example of "project creep" otherwise known as the "mushroom effect." This frequently happens when the project mushrooms. Welcome and best of luck.

[Jon B.]

Re: Accessing Body Bolts/Nuts; Advice on lifting Body?

Yes, it's definitely project creep! The car has been off the road for over 3 years. Good thing though, it probably wasn't even all that safe, even though it seemed to run and drive really well until the rear end started making terrible noises.

Thanks Alan for the instructive photos.

I will be removing the seats to try to lighten some of the weight. Would like to avoid removing the doors-also thinking of the support they will provide.

The guy helping me did lift the body of a '68 convertible a few years ago using an engine hoist, but that car had a rough body. The fact my car is painted, I really would prefer not to use a hoist/straps and instead it seems we'll likely lift from the slim outer rocker channel area with the floor jacks/2X4's. I've heard of some people lifting partially on the floors, but that seems quite risky. Maybe not...
I also understand that supporting the nose is a very good idea.

Will have to keep researching and finally decide a plan of attack.

Thanks again, and if anyone has more advice or photos to share, that'd be great.

Jon

[Patrick H.]

Re: Accessing Body Bolts/Nuts; Advice on lifting Body?

Hi,

I have an '71 LS5 Coupe, and was convinced by my mechanic that since we have done so much already (including a rebuilt engine), that we should go ahead and replace the fuel and brake lines. Before I knew it, I had purchased all new pre-bent lines and had cut off the old lines. It's been 6 months and the project has been stalled for various reasons, one of which is that neither my mechanic or me are certain on how to fully access all of the bolts/mounts, and also how we should lift the body.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Jon

Jon,

Realize that it is (!) possible to replace those lines without removing the body.
I didn't say easy, I just said possible.

Patrick

[Jon B.]

Re: Accessing Body Bolts/Nuts; Advice on lifting Body?

Hi Patrick,
I have read in a couple of different forums that it is possibe, but have never seen a good explanation as to how.
Even if one can thread the pre-bent lines through supposedly the hardest area to do this-the frame 'kick-ups-, can one get the clips in to hold the lines in place?
I'd certainly be willing to give it a go if I knew I may have success.
Anyone installed lines without lifting the body, without splicing and using fittings?
Thanks,
Jon

[Patrick H.]

Re: Accessing Body Bolts/Nuts; Advice on lifting Body?

Jeff Salz has done it twice per his report.
Brake lines are easy; it's the fuel lines that are a bear. I did have to modify a couple of cheap sockets to get at some of the bracket bolts.

[Joseph K.]

Re: Accessing Body Bolts/Nuts; Advice on lifting Body?

Jon,

You mentioned doing work on the rear and pulling the motor. It might easier with the body off with all of these things that you are doing. I have heard of replacing the fuel lines with the body on but, if you have a manual trans it would more difficult because the cross member does not come down. I pulled the body off with 7 of my sons friends. it was very easy pulling it off and putting back on. To support the body I carried the sides of the car on 4x4s in the rails on cheep jack stands and the nose and rear I supported with concrete blocks and wooded shims. A couple of other things that I forgot were the wire to the brake diverter valve and the ground straps to the exhaust pipe. BTW the tank does not have to come down. It can stay on for the pull.

Joe

[Jon B.]

Re: Accessing Body Bolts/Nuts; Advice on lifting Body?

Hi,

Yes, that's what my mechanic's argument is-so much has already been removed off car, now would be the time to lift the body, put the new lines in, clean, paint the top of the frame etc. I certainly see his point.

It is a 4-speed manual shift car, so as you said, that much harder to install lines without lifting the body.

I certainly appreciate the advice I am receiving here.

Thanks,
Jon

[Tom L.]

Re: Accessing Body Bolts/Nuts; Advice on lifting Body?

I did the lines on my car without lifting the body. It was an automatic so I didn't have to make a splice. It was NO fun, those nice bends in the lines will get distorted, the lines will get marked up from being forced between the body and frame, your newly painted frame will get scratched and then you'll have to try to get the lines bent back as correctly as possible to fit along the frame rail. Not sure I'd do it that way again but it is possible. Good luck!!

[Patrick H.]

Re: Accessing Body Bolts/Nuts; Advice on lifting Body?

Automatics are easy. I've done that no problem.
It's the 4 speed cars that will make you say words that would make a sailor blush.