The Graying of NCRS

[Patrick H.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

Jim,
I am not saying advertising isn't worth a try again. Maybe now is different times than in the '90s. Those decisions belong to the BoD. There are some pretty smart fellows on there and I know this issue was discussed at length in the late '90s when I attended board meetings regularily. And as I said I only posted on your message because I wanted folks to know that NCRS had tried advertising, and what the experience was.

I'll crawl back into my hole and watch this thread. It has been most interesting. 2157 views

FYI, in talking with Corvette vendors, they find it very cheap and effective to advertise on discussion boards like this one.
I think I'd help pay for an NCRS ad on the Corvette Forum.

[Dick W.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

NCRS has advertised numerous times in various publications with almost zilch results. The BOD has gone thru many brainstorming sessions on how to generate new members. Paid ads in the various Corvette related magazines is not the way to do it. Do I have a magic bullet? Nope, but the BOD keeps digging for that one nugget that will generate many new members. Barrett Jackson booths seem to generate the most new members at events. As I stated before, Bloomington and Carlisle used to be a great source for new members, but not today.

I still say it is up to the members of NCRS to recruit the new young members. The younger generations do not read like old pharts such as me. I used to subscribe to four or five magazines related to the hobby, but today the only magazines I receive are from clubs that I belong to. Look at newspapers, their ad revenue is in the pits and many of your daily papers will fold, in print media at least, in the next five to ten years. A large part of the new members of NCRS come from the internet. Way over half of the new members come from our website.

It is a different world out there. The boomers are maturing and retiring, the X, Y, and whatever generations are changing the world as we know it.

[Michael F.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

I don't think you will find many kids who find the distinction between an L-88 and an L-48 an attracting feature. They haven't acheived the knowledge that would help them see it as significant.

I am the first to say spread the love.

IMHO The only real hope of sparking todays kids interest in old cars, will be the media. Kinda like what American Graffiti did for the Hot rods. If it's not a national mindset? It's not going to happen.

I am sorry to say,clubs like NCRS may see their memberships in steady decline sooner than later. It's not the cars.It's the old dudes (myself included) that chase em off. Never has been, never will be cool to hang with the old dudes.

"Sure Grandpa is a neat old guy, but he smells funny and he is always talking about the good old days and some fat chick named "Marilyn Monroe". etc...LOL

[Monte M.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

The price of the cars is a huge part of not drawing in new members. Like I mentioned before, that part will take care of itself when the market is flooded with or cars as we go see father time.
A huge part of not drawing in new members is the attituded of some of our members. It is only a few, but it is there. I myself have left a portion of our membership that made me feel very unwelcome. The help was there to answer my questions and the majority of the member were great, but there were those few who got involved and actually were a problem. There was no bought it was a Good Olde Boys club I was entering.
My goal is not to make anyone mad, but we have groups among us that do not welcome new comers at all. On the outside, it may appear that they do, but it is very clear by the end that it was about egos and money.
I am very fortunate to be working on a car again that everybody still seems to work together. At least I feel they feel that way and that is what is important.
My point in even bringing it up is, we the members are going to be a huge part of deciding if this stays alive or not. In my experience there are going to be different groups that make it and others that do not. If most of you are honest, I have heard many time "This group is very difficult to deal with" or "You might be better of not dealing with those guys". The groups are usually mentioned in a specific year or years of cars that a group runs with. I have been around a long time and if I have no interest in that group, it may prove to be very difficult to keep new comer coming in.
Most of the people I know that have left the NCRS, left because of the attitudes of a member they ran across. It is a shame that you can have ten great interactions and then one bad one. People tend to remember the bad ones.
We speak our own language here. This is very intimidating to some. When we are talking to an outsider, it would be very wise to speak so they can understand us. Most do not know the option numbers and so on. This will no help much, but it is one tool that will not hurt.
To address a few of the other idea that have been mentioned: Yes, combine an NCRS event with another event. But, again lighten it up a bit. To be having cars being "Top Flighted" at a corner car show will only make us look like snobs. This is the reputation we have, by the way. To us it is normal because we have evolved with the hobby. But, to outsiders, it is just so far out of their reach to ever think of owning a car where the bolts are judged, that they do not even consider us as a potential place to hang out.
We need to find some way of lightening up our hobby so it is not quite so intimidating to outsiders. Hell, I am intimidated by some of this stuff.
So, any idea of combining one of our meets with other events.
Also, The reality is that the newer Corvette's is where the hobby is heading. If we want to keep the NCRS alive, that is where most of the new blood is going to come from. Let's find a way to open those doors a little bigger. I consider my 72 a newer Corvette. I am part of the problem. I am sure I have done some of the not so nice things I mentioned.
Newer cars with younger owners is how we evolve. you old grumpy guys, (I might be included) just try to remember we were new to the hobby at one time. We did not have ,so called, high dollar cars when we started. Hell, most of us could not afford to buy the cars we own now.
It is a hobby. Let's try to make everybody we can fell welcome. let's find a way to get the younger Corvette owners involved.
And, learn to ask about their cars, not just talk about our cars. You married guys should have figured out this one.
Enjoy the hobby, lighten up and see about bringing in some young blood.

[Loren S.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

Lots of great points here. I am 47 and have been a Corvette nut since childhood. I have campaigned a few cars over the years but the fact that work, family and other obligations have meant that I personally have not been able to participate as much as I would like. I would wager that there are plenty of others in their 30s/40s dealing with similiar issues. Another factor is 5 dollar gas makes it even tougher to justify bringing a car out. As Dick stated, it's up to the membership to help promote our organization.

Ditto, I'm 48 and plan on becoming active in this club in a few years when I actually have free time. Right now raising kids and trying to earn money to feed them and put a little aside for retirement takes all my time. I think it's only natural that the most active people in a club like this would be older, and I don't think that is a bad thing. I love to go to meets and/or read this forum and learn from the wealth of information that comes from members who have been in the hobby for several decades. As long as GM keeps building America's sports car, there will always be another generation of enthusiasts to step up.

[Dick W.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

There was an extensive exit survey conducted and it did not bear out the statement you made "Most of the people I know that have left the NCRS, left because of the attitudes of a member they ran across."

Most left because they sold their car, lost interest, financial concerns, divorce, death.

Unfortunately the statement "The reality is that the newer Corvette's is where the hobby is heading. If we want to keep the NCRS alive, that is where most of the new blood is going to come from" has not born out. We thought with the inclusion of the '73-'77 cars we would see a large influx of new members, same with the inclusion of later C-3's and the C-4's.

There is no magic bullet to increase membership, it is going to be up to our members to recruit members on their own.

[Rob M.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

I agree the possibilities of Internet should be utilized much more! Like our Facebook account should be updated at least weekly with new info on what is happening (e.g. news out of the board meeting last weekend should be published there). Also advertising on peer sites like Corvette Forum and sites of other Corvette Clubs should be better utilized.

We as the Dutch Chapter gain the most memberships by people finding our site on internet and contacting us because they have Corvette questions (often the found a nice car in the States and need guidelines on how to assess, buy, transport and import these cars) and by being present on other clubs forums and activities informing them on how NCRS differs from the "other" clubs and what the added value is of our organisation.

I always encourage young people to look at the car, sit in it, take pictures and when possible take them on a ride. Normally that does it, they are totally hooked and before you know they are looking for a car for themselves (either models or 1:1 size).

So all: go out and advertise, it is a job for all of us...

[Monte M.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

Let me clear something up. My statmente should have said. "Most of the people I know that have left the NCRS, and still own their cars, left because of the attitudes of a member they ran across."
And, as far as my statement, "The reality is that the newer Corvette's is where the hobby is heading." I should have been more specific. In my neighborhood, there are a number of younger Corvette owners. I have gone out of my way to engage the younger guys like I would if they just moved in the neighborhood and owned a mid-year.
We have discussed the NCRS. They have an interest. The one comment from most of the guys was. "It is kind of an old guys game" Their feelingis that , yes, their cars might be included, but it is really about older cars. I did explain that it is an evolution as the years go by. When I joind NCRS, there was very little information out about my 72. In time there will be more things surrounding their cars.
I think there are two factors here. First, the younger generation is an instant gratification generation. They want what they want and they want it now. Second, I think they will come around, but it is just going to take time we may not have.
bringing in the 73-77 was a good move. To think it would bear a lot of new members was misplaced energy. I do not want to step on toes, but here goes. There are a lot of really nice 73-77 cars out there. Quite a few of the owners are doing what we did. Own what you can and enjoy it while you are working you way to another car you might like to have. BUT, with the value on some of these cars not being what it might be on an earlier car, the money is just not going to be there to keep that part of the hobby alive.
What I mean is, as I bring my 72 along(even the 72 is questionable. I rarther it be the same car in a 70) I have to realize that htere is a point where it is just not worth the money. It is alot more difficult to restore a 73-77 and think about any kind of return on your money. Hell, it is getting difficult for every year car. We included those cars, but there are just not going to be a ton of those cars done until the value goes up a bit.
I know I did not explain myself very well, but I would rather have a poor explaination of my point than to hurt someones feeling and chase them away from the NCRS because of my attitute. Get my point.
We are a good bunch, for the most part. It is up to us a individual members to go out and talk to some of the newer owners to see what they think.
Have a great day guys.

[Rich C.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

When I bought my '73 it was because I'd wanted one for YEARS! I bought one as a driver. Then I bought an A.I.M., then I realized it was missing parts (smog pump, rear sway bar etc.) Then I saw NCRS cars in various magazines and I was hooked! I wanted to start amassing the parts to someday restore the car to top flight (20 years of collecting, I'm getting close) while still enjoying the car as a driver. My point is this; Yup, I'm going to have a LOT more invested in the car then it will be worth, but that doesn't bother me in the least. It will be the pride of knowing I restored/saved a car that, while no L-88, is still a corvette, a little piece of automotive history. I kinda figure the founders of this club would have had a similar view.

'73 LS-4 454 owned 21 3/4 years

Smu ttynose 'Finestkind' IPA, now on tap!

[Jack P.]

Drive you car !

Most of you know that I drive my 66 all the time. It is an original engine l-79 with 300,000 miles on it . It looks great and drives better than most top flights ever will.

I have tried to interest NCRS in my trip to Europe with very little response. My 20,000 miles last summer on my trip exposed my car to more people than 10 years of conventions.

If you want to expand the membership and interest in C1 , C2 and C3 cars, they must be seen on the road.

Members on the Corvette Forum tend to drive their cars........

I have just as many Europeans interested in my driving a C2 in Europe as was in the US.

Stop polishing the cars and start driving them.....we are getting old....what are you saving the car for......? Sell it , or drive it..... once you have your top flight,,,,,, go for a ride.......the rain will not hurt ........

Let people see these cars on the road.......that is what we saw as young people.......you know it is true.....just take your car out for a ride and just look at the people who wave or want to talk with you...

Drive the dam car.......and save the hobby....

Just my view............

Jack

[Dan H.]

Re: Drive you car !

I have read more of this post than any other on this site, it is very interesting. I am 35 and joined NCRS last year. I feel like I am the type of person your trying to attract (maybe not???). I found the NCRS booth at Carlisle un-approachable last summer. There was some 50/60 somethings droning on and on with the people at the booth. Everytime I stopped by interested in joining, the same "grays" were there BS'ing.

This will be a post of total disclosure. I own a low mile, very original 71 LT-1 coupe. This car was given to me by my parents. I am very grateful to be the recipient of such an awesome gift. Please don't get me wrong, I do not come from wealth. I paid for my own education through student loans. I am proud of my modest career and bought my first home about 2 years ago. Don't worry, my father still owns a controversial V0626 '67 with BB hood (the Syracuse driver car in the '96 restorer article).

I grew up with family vacations being trips to Carlisle PA. I love going to car shows and appreciate the originality of the car I have. I would never consider any changes that compromises my cars originality. That being said, I don't see myself ever going for NCRS judging. I like that it is original, but I have little interest in a nut and bolt restoration. When the day comes for my car to be torn down I want to put it back together solid and new. Chasing a correct bolt or what not is a bit overboard for my taste. My cars body shows 40 years of age and the paint of the motor is chipping off when I clean it. It will have to come apart at some point in the next 10 years.

For me, my current taste is to make something haul ass that appears stock. I also have a 4 door Chevelle (yuck). But my plans are for a GMPP 383 with an M-21. Its a total waste of money, but its the kind of job that interests me.

I am more than open and willing to speak to anyone at NCRS in what interests me (the 30/40 year old). I intend on joining a local club, however their online pictures certainly put me outside their demographic. This won't deter me from trying. I hold a lot of respect for my pops and his car club friends. Last xmas I met up with some old friends and there comment was "there isn't much your dad and I DON'T know about a C3". I call them all the time with questions. However, I don't look forward to the drive-in scrutiny where the grays comment on all the things not factory correct with the new car at the cruise night, I'll still be there )

Dan

[Patrick H.]

Re: Drive you car !

This will be a post of total disclosure. I own a low mile, very original 71 LT-1 coupe. This car was given to me by my parents. I am very grateful to be the recipient of such an awesome gift. Please don't get me wrong, I do not come from wealth. I paid for my own education through student loans. I am proud of my modest career and bought my first home about 2 years ago. Don't worry, my father still owns a controversial V0626 '67 with BB hood (the Syracuse driver car in the '96 restorer article).

I grew up with family vacations being trips to Carlisle PA. I love going to car shows and appreciate the originality of the car I have. I would never consider any changes that compromises my cars originality. That being said, I don't see myself ever going for NCRS judging. I like that it is original, but I have little interest in a nut and bolt restoration. When the day comes for my car to be torn down I want to put it back together solid and new. Chasing a correct bolt or what not is a bit overboard for my taste. My cars body shows 40 years of age and the paint of the motor is chipping off when I clean it. It will have to come apart at some point in the next 10 years.

Dan

Dan,

You need to look into the Bowtie Award then. Your car sounds like a great candidate - possibly a Duntov/Bowtie combination?
From what you describe I don't see any reason your car would need to be "torn down."
Take a look at my 72 as linked in my signature below for a car that is original and gets the awards too, or the links that Kevin Goodman has in his signature.

Not all Top Flight and/or Duntov cars are restored ones. Original cars can do it too.

Patrick

PS - looking for those little parts gives you something to do at Carlisle.

[Gary H.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

In order for the NCRS to succeed in the future, the chapter level cannot be ignored.

I live in South Florida. It is the end of March. The next NCRS event is in November and it is in the middle of nowhere...a 5 1/2 hour drive from me. We need more local events. The entire state of Florida has 2 NCRS events for the year.

I keep on reading about people with issues regarding the fees of membership and judging. I think that it is very cheap for the wealth of information. There is a car show every weekend here in South Florida and people routinely pay $25-30 for entrance for a silly trophy. I see one or two classic vettes driving around on almost a weekly basis down here.

Someone needs to come up with a guideline for a toned down version of judging that could be done in an afternoon in cities all around the country. The entry fee for this should include a junior membership to the NCRS with 6 months of online access and 1-2 issues of the driveline and the restorer. The focus should not be on the correct nuts and bolts like flight judging, but rather the major original components. I think preservation of original parts should also be a focus as many people buy the 74-mid 80's cars because they are affordable and fun. They do not care that the cars are nut and bolt correct, but would love to learn more about their cars from people very familiar with the judging process. A less detail oriented version of judging would work great to give these people a taste of the NCRS without turning them off. I meet people all the time that aren't even all that familiar with their own cars. They wanted a cool old car, found one in their price range and bought it. They all have one thing in common. They want their cars to be better. They want them to look better and they want them to perform better.

I hear older vette owners all the time tell me that if they could go back they would have never tossed all of their original takeoff parts...well guess what, it is happening all over again. If we can get the new breed of vette owners interested in preservation there will always be an interest in the NCRS.

Gary

[Michael J.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

I The entire state of Florida has 2 NCRS events for the year.


I hear older vette owners all the time tell me that if they could go back they would have never tossed all of their original takeoff parts...well guess what, it is happening all over again. If we can get the new breed of vette owners interested in preservation there will always be an interest in the NCRS.

Gary

You are very lucky, in New Mexico we have an NCRS event maybe once every ten years, a regional. It's a long drive for us to do anything with NCRS except chapter meetings, and even then I have to drive 3 hours round-trip just to do that, it takes time and great interest to be an NCRS member in the hinterlands away from the big population centers.

And on that interesting younger members in preservation, I tried that a few times on that other forum with C6s and ZR1, I thought I would get death threats, the only thing it seems they want to do with the new ones is buy tons of aftermarket parts for every item they can replace. This is way more than what we did in the '60s, the aftermarket vendors are a huge group that advertises constantly. I wouldn't be surprised if my ZR1 is the only original one left in a few years if you believe all the chatter on that forum.

[Dick W.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

In order for the NCRS to succeed in the future, the chapter level cannot be ignored.

I live in South Florida. It is the end of March. The next NCRS event is in November and it is in the middle of nowhere...a 5 1/2 hour drive from me. We need more local events. The entire state of Florida has 2 NCRS events for the year.

I keep on reading about people with issues regarding the fees of membership and judging. I think that it is very cheap for the wealth of information. There is a car show every weekend here in South Florida and people routinely pay $25-30 for entrance for a silly trophy. I see one or two classic vettes driving around on almost a weekly basis down here.

Someone needs to come up with a guideline for a toned down version of judging that could be done in an afternoon in cities all around the country. The entry fee for this should include a junior membership to the NCRS with 6 months of online access and 1-2 issues of the driveline and the restorer. The focus should not be on the correct nuts and bolts like flight judging, but rather the major original components. I think preservation of original parts should also be a focus as many people buy the 74-mid 80's cars because they are affordable and fun. They do not care that the cars are nut and bolt correct, but would love to learn more about their cars from people very familiar with the judging process. A less detail oriented version of judging would work great to give these people a taste of the NCRS without turning them off. I meet people all the time that aren't even all that familiar with their own cars. They wanted a cool old car, found one in their price range and bought it. They all have one thing in common. They want their cars to be better. They want them to look better and they want them to perform better.

I hear older vette owners all the time tell me that if they could go back they would have never tossed all of their original takeoff parts...well guess what, it is happening all over again. If we can get the new breed of vette owners interested in preservation there will always be an interest in the NCRS.

Gary

Have you ever volunteered to help put on an event in South Florida. Events usually occur in the general area where the majority of the chapter membership resides. I have driven five to six hours, one way, for chapter events until a chapter was formed near me. Still have to drive over an hour to anything that they do. I am not complaining.