The Graying of NCRS

[Erv M.]

I would agree with Roy that the NCRS is a rich man's hobbie. Without disposable income most functions are not in the budget and you are not going out and buying a C2. I live in Southern California and wanted to go to the Nationals, however I could only squeeze one day in. I can afford the $125 easily but for a great deal of people the$125 stops them from attending. Want to see new faces, think about a one day pass for non-judging participation. Just a couple bucks to be able to see the cars on the judging floor.

With that said let me tell you a story. My mother inlaw belongs to the Young Ladies Institute, no one is under seventy years of age. Yes they share the same problem as we do, no young people to keep the Institute alive, no succession. They have tried and recruited in the past to witness a mass exodus of the young ladies in rapid fashion. Now we need to ask ourselves why? WHY?

It is basic, young people have different interests and the current BOD continues to safe guard the "good old days" The Young Lady Institute was not willing to change. Therefore they had little to offer their young recruits. The young leave and live, the old ones stay and die and the Institute is no more.

What can we do to attract young people? Well I do not believe succesion starts with children. We need to target people in their thirties or forties that have corvettes! We need to change to make them feel welcomed and appreciated and have a place in the system for their not so perfect cars. And here is the kicker, need activities that they would enjoy. Having road tours during the week excludes those who work. Activities on the weekends that they can attend is paramount.

Take a look at this discussion board and the activity recently. I remember when there would be 100 + logged in, not anymore. And just suppose there were no C2's, the activity on this board would be mute.

Sorry to ramble but succession is a very import strategy to any healthy organization. It is time!

[Bruce B.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

Erv,
I agree with you 100%.
Since you are only 54 it is good to hear your opinions.
A lot of us older guys bought our cars when they were barely affordable, now the great auction houses have driven the prices sky high.
Lets hope we hear more comments on your posting.
Bruce B

[Floyd B.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

To keep the sun from setting on this hobby without fundamentally changing the charter of the NCRS, I think we would have to generate more interest in the preservation and restoration of the C4. This is the new entry point for the hobby; you can get a decent car for under $10k and used/original parts are plentiful and relatively inexpensive. Personally, I would rather let the sun set on the NCRS rather than change it's charter from the precise restoration and preservation that we are known for. There are already any number of "Corvette Clubs" for those who simply have an interest in owning and driving a Corvette. Having restored a C3 and a C4, I can say that I've had just as much fun restoring the '96 LT4 as I did the '73. In many ways C4 Corvettes are very curious and interesting machines. 1980's technology (ala Blade Runner) are to C4's what chrome was to Harley Earl.

[Don H.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

Erv, The title to your thread is very appropriate and caught my eye. This is not a new subject, the Judging Reference Manual actually had the term "graying of our society" in the part about limiting the number of cars to be judged in one day. As far as cost, I agree it is a concern. It enters into my decisions (and many of my friends) on what events to attend. BUT, if you have ever helped plan an event - Regional or especially National - it costs money. A lot of money to put on an event where people are willing to bring their valuable cars to (what is an event without cars?). So it is a balancing act, cost versus location. Of course safety, security, accesibility, etc have to be considered. What is the answer to get young people involved? I do not know. I trust (and pray) our leaders (the National Board of Directors) are doing everything they can to prolong our beloved hobby (yes, it is a passion for most). As they say, my $.02, Don H.

[Keith B.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

Being 28 and in this hobby for the last 20 years I find it hard to be taken serious when it comes to talking about what's original and what's not. Seeing how I was not there 40 years ago when all these cars were plentifully.



I would like to go to major NCRS shows but hardly any are close and when they are it's not convenient for me to go plus the cost of going.

[Patrick H.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

Being 28 and in this hobby for the last 20 years I find it hard to be taken serious when it comes to talking about what's original and what's not. Seeing how I was not there 40 years ago when all these cars were plentifully.

I would like to go to major NCRS shows but hardly any are close and when they are it's not convenient for me to go plus the cost of going.

Keith,

I was less than 4 when my 71 was built, less than 5 when my 72 was built. That didn't stop me from learning, Observer Judging, meeting people and moving "up the ranks."
I joined at age 22 when I had no income and participated at the Chapter level for a few years before I was lucky enough to have the National less than an hour away in 1992.
I joke that when I joined I was often the youngest guy on the judging field. The problem is that 22+ years later I'm still often the youngest guy on the judging field.
However, my 16 year old (member 50001) is my personal OJ and after working on our cars knows quite a bit about them. It won't be long until he is judging on his own.

The Altoona Regional will be close to you this fall, and there are Chapters near you that are very active. Start there and work your way up, so to speak.
I see from your profile that you've been active with them as a judge. Keep at it - it took me over 15 years to get to the Master Judge level by doing it the slow and cheap way.
You can do it too.

Patrick

[Wayne W.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

BUT, if you have ever helped plan an event - Regional or especially National - it costs money. A lot of money to put on an event where people are willing to bring their valuable cars to (what is an event without cars?). So it is a balancing act, cost versus location. Don H.

I am also a member of the Cadillac and Lasalle Club, a prestigious mark on par with our beloved Corvette, and A Club that is very much on par with the NCRS, and it holds a spectacular convention.

2012 National Convention in St. Augustine Fl. Host hotel $89. Family registration $50 and $25 to have your car judged. Enough Said?

[Gary H.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

I'm 31. I cant tell you how many times I have heard people tell me that my father has a beautiful corvette. I bought my 63 5 years ago. When I was looking around for a C2...I lived in Orlando at the time and stopped in at Roger's to see what he had for sale and wasnt taken seriously at all.

I looked at countless 68-72 cars over a 2 2/2 year period looking for a 4 speed, big block car with factory AC. Most of the time the owners really gave me a funny look when I showed up at their doorstep to look at the cars that were for sale.

I had my car judged in Kissimmee this year (I top flighted it) and had plenty of interesting reactions when people found out it was actually my car and that I had an interest in cars that were way before my time.

None of my close friends have any interest in my cars at all. I think that the younger generation as a whole, with the exception of the ricer's (JAP car owners) do not like the idea of spending time maintaining and fixing a car. They prefer to have the computer tell them it is time to drop the car off at the dealership for service.

I see kids 10-15 years old all the time at local car shows with their parents or friends. Most people are more concerned that the kids at the shows will drip food on their paintjobs. I let some of them sit in the car and check it out, and I try to show them things about the cars. They are usually amazed that someone will actually let them touch a show car. If these kids do not take an interest in our older cars, the cars will eventually become worthless.

Gary

[Chuck W.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

This dillema is not unique to NCRS, all car clubs face it. My wife and I are active members of the CCCA, AACA, ACD, Cadillac/LaSalle, Model T, MCA, Model A Clubs in addition to NCRS and they ALL face the identical fact that things change and their membership is aging . I have observed however two distinctly different responses being taken to this issue. Clubs like the AACA have chosen to pursue the volume model and I believe through that practice have cheapened their club to the point that fewer collectors take award achievement that significant. An AACA Junior, Senior, or Grand National mean less today than they once did. CCCA on the other hand has maintained its standards, embraced the reality of an aging membership, and has been able to hold true to its charter. Personally, I have attended fewer AACA meets in recent years and more CCCA meets.

The significant cost of attending any car event is less about the fees associated with the judging event and more about transportation and fuel costs, living accomodations, and food. Todays youth, while probably not spending their money on car events do have more resources than I did at their age and are better "equipped" than I was at the same point in my life. Consider what is being spent on clothes, phones, ipads, games, computers, etc. to what we grew up with and it is clear that it is a matter of choice and parental decision (help) that is contributing to the change that we are experiencing.

Should we encourage new membership (regardless of age and gender), YES. Is the bulk of the intellectual knowledge and advancement in understanding of how these vehicles were actually built going to come from our youth? Probably NO. Young members can best contribute to the growth of our hobby by doing exactly what we all do.... invest in learning. As my dear old departed dad always said. "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear" and "You can't push a rope".

JMHO, for what it is worth.

[Tony S.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

When I bought my first C2 back in 1980 I paid $6000 for a real '66 blue/blue 427/390 4spd coupe. $6000. In the mid '70's, a nice midyear convertible (s/b) might go for $3500. Now prices are multiples of that. The gray generation is the one that can still buy and own these cars.

Hey, we're young only once, but we can always be immature, right?

[Reba W.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

To comment on several things in this thread:

1. NCRS has offered a one-day pass at the national convention for several years now. That is nothing new.

2. I don't know, but would bet the low registration fee Wayne mentions for the Cadillac group is due to an outdoor show field. NCRS has for the most part abandoned outdoor nationals for climate-controlled convention halls. (2010 excepted: Remember what Charlotte was like?) These are very expensive to rent. Round-the-clock security, seminar space, judges' meals etc. must be provided.

3. As others have mentioned, get involved with your nearest chapter. Nearly all chapter events are limited to weekends, and many of them include road tours. NCRS knows that not everyone is retired, so the national is planned around people taking vacation time for it.

[Paul H.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

The unfortunate reality is that you like what you grew up with. Most of us grew up with the solid axles and midyears. Most younger people, under 35, can't afford them nor do they have an interest in them. The C4's and the late C3's are affordable and are being judged. The younger people that own these affordable cars don't seem to have an interest in NCRS or having them judged. Perhaps less of a focus on judging and more of a focus on driving and inexpensive weekend, regional events would be more alluring.

[Dick W.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

The "Graying of the NCRS" is not a new term or comment. Bill Clupper, then NCRS President, made that comment at the 1990 NCRS National Convention in Williamsburg VA. The comment made about the other clubs is pretty much true, although I got seriously chastised by the Executive Director of one of them because I made a comment about the loss of membership.

NCRS has approximately 15,700 members. This is down about 800 from the historical high reached four or five years ago. It seems to be a stable number. Is this the right size for the organization? Should it be larger? Smaller? You could spend tens of thousands of dollars with consultants to get their opinions of what size the organization should be.

The whole hobby has lost a generation of car nuts. They are/were interested in everything but cars. SEMA has said that the young people today that are buying cars are somewhat interested in automobiles and collecting, restoring, etc. It is going to be up to each club to cultivate them to become members.

There have been several attempts by the NCRS BOD to study the membership loss/gain. We lose about 10% or so of our membership each year and gain back about 10%. The loss is due to death, aging out, sold my car, lost interest, etc. Many join for one year and figure out NCRS is not what they want. Bloomington and Carlisle used to be good events to recruit new members, but today the number of members gained from those events is almost nil. The majority seem to come from the Internet today. Times are a changin'.

Your BOD works hard to keep the membership dues down and to increase the benefits of being a member. I did an analysis of dues structure several years ago. Just to keep up with inflation, the dues should be about $47.00 today. The Confirmation Document, Shipping Report, books sales, etc. have contributed enough to the bottom line to allow the dues to stay where they are. USPS is working hard to change that though, time will tell if postage increases force a dues increase sometime in the future. No increases are in the works to my knowledge.

The financial side of a Regional or National Convention is somewhat scary. It is not the objective to make or lose money, but to break even. Renting a facility large enough to accommodate the cars inside is very expensive. Most places are close to $40,000 for a National. The event is charged the overhead of mailing, registration, judges' meals, annual meeting, security, etc. Add in the side trips and the banquet and you can have a $200,000 event budget. Hotels charge several hundred dollars a day for the rental of AV equipment. Breakout rooms are not free. Historically the event barely breaks even. There have been exceptions either way. The most profitable Convention was a result of making lemonade out of lemons. The event should have lost about $5,000, but through the luck of the draw made several thousand dollars. That money went into a Convention account to cover the possible losses at a future event. Probably more conventions have lost money than made money.

You, the membership, is ultimately responsible for growth. It is promotion from members like you that will ultimately determine where our membership numbers go.

[Dick W.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

When I bought my first C2 back in 1980 I paid $6000 for a real '66 blue/blue 427/390 4spd coupe. $6000. In the mid '70's, a nice midyear convertible (s/b) might go for $3500. Now prices are multiples of that. The gray generation is the one that can still buy and own these cars.

Hey, we're young only once, but we can always be immature, right?

And I paid $6,000 for my '69 L/88 and was laughed at. It was no saled at Kissimmee at $400,000 (not my car today)

[Mark D.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

It's not all bad.

When you guys are all dead and I'm still kickin'...

I will be the only guy on the tech board so, I can post whatever I want and will always be right
The national convention and all the regionals will be at my house
My car will always score 100% (I'll do away with that not being able to judge your own car thingy)
My Camaro will get a Top Flight
Registration will be free
Not only will you be allowed to drink (as a judge, during judging) but, reefer will also be allowed and encouraged (free munchies provided)
My car will always get the pink ribbon because my 100 year old wife will be the only 'girl' voting
And best of all...no waiting in line at the urinal

Youth is wasted on the young