The Graying of NCRS

[Tom R.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

The "Graying of the NCRS" is not a new term or comment. Bill Clupper, then NCRS President, made that comment at the 1990 NCRS National Convention in Williamsburg VA. The comment made about the other clubs is pretty much true, although I got seriously chastised by the Executive Director of one of them because I made a comment about the loss of membership.

You, the membership, is ultimately responsible for growth. It is promotion from members like you that will ultimately determine where our membership numbers go.

Nice historical perspective and synopsis!

[Dick W.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

Out of curiosity, has the data ever been shared to determine how the groups membership is actually doing? Membership up / down year over prior? What is the avg age of members, age of members joining?

There is data year to year, it has varied from about 15,300 in 2,000 to a high of about 16,200 four or five years ago, and has settled at about 15,500 give or take a couple of hundred members. I asked the question in the BOD meeting several years ago, "has NCRS matured?"

Membership growth in a single marque auto club is tough to grow. Numbers are a moving target. There are many reasons to join, but there are just as many reasons that people do not want to belong. NCRS has never relaxed their judging standards to grow the organization, they have tweaked it to make it more equitable for all though. I suppose that you could make it easy like some other organizations do and get more cars to a meet. Do we want to do this? I think not, it would cheapen the awards that everyone in the past has worked hard to get. Do we want to judge 1,600 cars in about five hours like other organizations do? Again you cheapen the awards. Example I know of is a car that the trim tag (I have seen all three of the trim tags for the car) and the block stamp was called, did not get a flight award. Same car went to another organization and got about a 98-99% score, getting the top award available at that meet.

Your BOD had a brain storming session several years ago at the Kissimmee meet. A lot of things came out in that meeting, things were tried, but in the end we are still in the 15,500 member range. I have some new ideas that were discussed at a marketing class I took earlier this week. Suggestions will probably be made in the not too distant future.

[Patrick N.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

Dick Whittington (8804);606025]There is data year to year, it has varied from about 15,300 in 2,000 to a high of about 16,200 four or five years ago, and has settled at about 15,500 give or take a couple of hundred members. I asked the question in the BOD meeting several years ago, "has NCRS matured?"

Membership growth in a single marque auto club is tough to grow. Numbers are a moving target. There are many reasons to join, but there are just as many reasons that people do not want to belong. NCRS has never relaxed their judging standards to grow the organization, they have tweaked it to make it more equitable for all though. I suppose that you could make it easy like some other organizations do and get more cars to a meet. Do we want to do this? I think not, it would cheapen the awards that everyone in the past has worked hard to get. Do we want to judge 1,600 cars in about five hours like other organizations do? Again you cheapen the awards. Example I know of is a car that the trim tag (I have seen all three of the trim tags for the car) and the block stamp was called, did not get a flight award. Same car went to another organization and got about a 98-99% score, getting the top award available at that meet.

Your BOD had a brain storming session several years ago at the Kissimmee meet. A lot of things came out in that meeting, things were tried, but in the end we are still in the 15,500 member range. I have some new ideas that were discussed at a marketing class I took earlier this week. Suggestions will probably be made in the not too distant future.

Dick, thanks for sharing that data, It seems the numbers are fairly flat if anything over the past decade. The rate at which the organization went for 16.2K to 15.5K would be concerning if that happened in a couple years time.

The interesting thing about Corvette is it spans so many generations. Although tastes may vary from a C1 owner and a C6 owner, its still a Corvette that keeps us linked. NCRS enables us to keep our cars running, get together with other cars/ owners at events and linked with the folks who can pass on the knowledge to help us keep them running. The big bonus is the flight judging. after the hard work, it is fantastic to know there is a standard that we can hold our cars to and be recognized for. I agree that idea of relaxing the judging standards and qualifications cheapen the value of flight award. I joined because of the challenge and sense of accomplishment and strong sense of community that goes into acquiring a flight award.

Brands reinvent themselves all the time, I work with large brands every day to find ways to remain relevant in the eyes of new generations while remaining authentic to their core values and mission. Seems like capturing new members, maybe younger members for NCRS would not be any different than what other brands have accomplished.

Best,
Pat

[Mike D.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

Nice historical perspective and synopsis!

in the Northwest, we have picked up new members who have purchased C1s and C 2s. They seem to be interested in the history and previous owners of their prized vehicles. The fact that these cars are expensive to purchase and turn a lot of heads while being driven has a lot to do with pride of ownership. Lets face it, C 3s and c 4s are plentiful, and the values of most of them are in the entry level of collector cars. None of these cars has a huge monetary reward for restoring them, compared to 67s and older. My 22 year old son has been around corvettes since he was 1. He likes the midyears and feels C 3s and C 4s are ugly. He does like my C 5 convertible, however. I drove my 1980 off the lot new, my father gave me the car around the year 2000, and figured I would never sell it. Unfortunately I don't see my children wanting the car when I am gone.
We are on a membership drive and are inviting the new members to all activities so they can get an accurate idea of the benefits of being a member. These newer members may be our future and we will be listening to anything they have to say. Both of my children used my c 5 for their proms and won't forget it. Talking up corvettes to the younger people may be the key to growth in the hobby. Embrace the youth, get them involved, and at all costs, do not push them away from the NCRS.

[Clark K.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

The graying of NCRS has no solution that I can see. A nice C1 or C2 costs about what a new Corvette costs ($50K?). Few young guys, with a wife, children, and a mortgage can afford a "$50,000 toy" that sits in the garage most of the time. If they did have a vintage Corvette "toy", they will have another car for themselves to drive daily, plus their wife's daily driver. Those who drive a vintage Corvette on a daily basis will quickly see them deteriorate. If they had a Top Flight Corvette when they got it, it will take a lot of money to keep a daily driver Corvette that way.

I have registered for the 2012 National NCRS convention, my very first. I was shocked that it cost me $850 to participate in just some of the activities. This is just to attend and go to some of the dinner excursions. The four day round trip and the convention will eat up a young guy's one week of annual vacation. Then, there is the cost of fuel there and back...a big expense if you trailer your Corvette. With a 1400 mile one-way trip to San Diego and your trailer-towing vehicle getting 12-13 mpg, the trip will cost you almost $1,000 just in fuel. Plus, the hotel bill for a week away from home plus the meals. I have budgeted about $2,500 for the trip, including the registration cost.

Yes, guys on a budget can opt for a less expensive Corvette. Some nice C4s are selling for less than $10,000. But, you cannot get away from the cost to attend the national convention, as outlined above. They will be financially forced to only attend chapter or close-by regional meets on weekends.

Let's face it, this is a rich guy's hobby and always has been unless NCRS wants to offer National Convention full-ride scholarships to younger Corvette owners. That might work, if the younger guy/gal can get off work for at least a week.
-Clark

[Dick W.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

Brands reinvent themselves all the time, I work with large brands every day to find ways to remain relevant in the eyes of new generations while remaining authentic to their core values and mission. Seems like capturing new members, maybe younger members for NCRS would not be any different than what other brands have accomplished.

Best,
Pat

I just spent three days in a very intense marketing course with a very high powered marketing professional. She worked on the "2 Scoops of Raisins", talking Parkay Margarine, Happy Meals, Ronald McDonald, Scrubbing Bubbles, and a several more notable campaigns. I picked up a few ideas that I going to see if my chapter wants to try.

[Keith S.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

This my first post to the board (editing my avatar and profile doesn't count you know ) after joining the NCRS some four weeks ago. I am 51 and have been a car nut since I was a teenager. If I kept all of the money I spent on vehicles over the years, I'd be posting from my own desert island on a gold plated laptop.

As maintaining membership growth is one of the core topics of this thread I think I should state why I joined........in two simple words......."knowledge and networking".

The accumulated knowledge that has been built up within the membership of the organization, an example of which is what I have seen displayed here while lurking on the forums, when combined with what is available for sale in the NCRS store was the primary reason I forked over the money to join. The opportunity to mingle with those of you who have the same interest, and as a result of making that connection I will save hundreds of hours of time in my pursuit of the Corvette hobby by being plugged into "the source" was the secondary force behind my signing up. Would I have paid more to join ? Hell yes.......twice as much FWIW.

As to the club graying, well, all car clubs and various other "collector markets" for different items seem to have that problem IMHO. Call it the "actuarial effect". As enthusiasts age, and the pool of interested parties and/or ready buyers diminishes as a result of this and economic factors beyond their control, it really doesn't matter too much what the object of desire is. This club, and every other one, will have to evolve somewhat if it is to exist long term..............now personally speaking, would I travel and bring a top flight C2 to a large event or attend a chapter meeting with a driver quality C4, no, it's just not my bag.....and I suspect it is not for many others as well. And that's not a bad thing either, it's just one of many tangents to membership, but it has to be recognized for what it is, and these things exploited as best as they can be for the benefit of the organization.

[Erv M.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

To comment on several things in this thread:

1. NCRS has offered a one-day pass at the national convention for several years now. That is nothing new.

2. I don't know, but would bet the low registration fee Wayne mentions for the Cadillac group is due to an outdoor show field. NCRS has for the most part abandoned outdoor nationals for climate-controlled convention halls. (2010 excepted: Remember what Charlotte was like?) These are very expensive to rent. Round-the-clock security, seminar space, judges' meals etc. must be provided.

3. As others have mentioned, get involved with your nearest chapter. Nearly all chapter events are limited to weekends, and many of them include road tours. NCRS knows that not everyone is retired, so the national is planned around people taking vacation time for it.

Page 116 of the current Driveline for the "2012 NCRS National Convention Registration Form" does not include an option for a one day pass. What is the cost of a one day pass?

[Tom D.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

No matter what's coming, it's been a fun association since the early 80s. Best friends along the way, best times spent with my kids (working on cars), and best retirement gig for me. I sure hope to keep it going for awhile yet!

[Don H.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

Erv, You do not register for a one day pass. It is a walk up and pay your admission like any one else to see the cars. As a NCRS member you are expected to register but this is not strickly inforced to my knowledge. With a one day pass you are admitted to the car area and can view all that is there - a public admission. You CAN NOT participate in any of the activities such as (but not limited to): seminars, judging - flight or observer, receptions, activities, etc. Don H.

[Rick B.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

I am 43, Acquired a 65 BB at 42 and am actively looking to add to my collection. Born in 68 before many of these cars were even born, I started in the Porsche hobby. Is this a rich man's hobby, maybe, expensive maybe, but as a newcomer, my experiences say the challenges are more than that. Access is the main challenge that may be keeping limits on younger involvement


I thought Roy's article was ironic. Having encountered many experienced & knowledgable people, much more than I - I have witnessed, instead of someone helping somebody better understand, their approach to introductions and conversations is a "You know nothing, what are you stupid" attitude. More egos need to be checked, Keeping this hobby vibrant starts with more patience, less attitude and more access to knowledge. Forging of new relationships and mentors (Judging schools can only do so much) is critical. For newcomers breaking through the "old boys club" is a very real issue.

Being inclusive rather than exclusive may help the growth.........as this hobby is very very difficult to navigate. On a personal side, I have been fortunate to have been able to establish and create some great relationships to help me overcome the learning curve. Helping me know what to look for, how to look for it and who to trust. These relationships have been critical in keeping me interested. Without this, I would of been out of this before it started. IMHO, Before we aim for the teenagers lets start with keeping the guys and gals my age and younger motivated and inspired to be part of NCRS, Bloomington and any other Corvette organizations, shows etc.

Oh and with some, why the constant justifying differences between NCRS and Bloomington? Who cares who has tougher standards, we are all in this.......

[Paul J.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

...I have witnessed, instead of someone helping somebody better understand, their approach to introductions and conversations is a "You know nothing, what are you stupid" attitude....

Rick, someone once said that to me on this forum. The "attitude" is probably the main reason that some people on CF bash us every time they get a chance. It certainly isn't condusive to recruiting members, is it.

You raise an interesting point. I've always looked far into the future and concentrated on the younger kids. This is because that's when I first discovered Corvettes. My perspective is that by building the interest base there would be more interest in the future, but any return in investing in the kids won't come until 20 or so years later. Maybe a better approach is to look at those people who are in thier 40's and 50's, who either already have a Corvette or want to own one in the near future. I am always surprised when I talk to people in local clubs who either have not heard of NCRS or have no interest in it without really understanding us. It almost seems that most of these people don't understand that NCRS membership is not all exclusive, and that it would be a good addition to thier present club membership. All of these conversations that I've had were with local club members that had cars which appeared very close to "factory correct". What I'm saying here is that I believe that there is an untapped NCRS membership potential in the local clubs, as well as people in thier 40's who are just getting to know the hobby.

Paul

[Dick W.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

I have witnessed, instead of someone helping somebody better understand, their approach to introductions and conversations is a "You know nothing, what are you stupid" attitude. More egos need to be checked,

I like to find those egos and have them for lunch. I don't claim to know much or anything, but usually can pick out the egotistical Sums of Britches. I like to lead them down the proverbial primrose path and then slam the door on them. I really like the ones that think their way is the only way of doing things. When you have restored cars since the early '60's you learn that there are many ways to skin a cat

[Mark D.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

I'll be honest, I go to a lot of meets. I also judge at every meet I attend and my experience is way different than what many folks are experiencing. I can tell you I am never arbitrarily rude or unfriendly to anyone I come in contact with. I also don't experience others being rude to me or anyone else. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm sure it does, just as it would at any group event, whether it's a car show or a septic tank manufacturers convention or Church gathering. NCRS folks are some of the friendliest and most helpful people I have had the pleasure to be associated with. I can tell you I've experienced a rude owner or two but that isn't even worth mentioning because that is way the exception.

It's not a perfect world. Listen, I'm not trying to be disrespectful to anyone but, I believe that perhaps people show up spring loaded to get their knickers in a knot. NCRS judging, as well as Bloomington Gold (I judge both) is inherently stressful because it is very in-depth but, it is also very rewarding for those willing to accept the rules that were in place when they signed up.

Rick, I'm sure your a great fellow but, are you saying that you have been referred to as stupid by someone in NCRS? You've not been around long and that would be very unfortunate if that happened. Have you been treated cordially by anyone since you joined? Can you give us an example or two of that? Paul, I knew after reading a couple of your posts your as sharp as a tack but, you don't have (that I can see) any judging points. Are you attending any meets? A guy like you should be involved because you could positively influence the direction of the organization. Again, I mean no disrespect, I realize some are not physically or financially or for whatever reason, able to get out and attend meets. Thing is, if this TDB is your only experience with NCRS well, that's not all there is.

Although this may be unfair, I don't place a lot of weight on people's remarks that are not actively participating or that are fairly new members that haven't had the time to get out and really get their feet wet. I'll also say that anyone that feels compelled to voice a complaint about the organization (which I fully support your right to do so) should perhaps take a moment to also consider if they have had a positive NCRS experience and maybe comment on that also.

It is what it is, an expensive hobby. We can't put a gun to peoples heads and force them to like us or Corvettes. I say let's enjoy the organization if we can, keep the standards high and let the chips fall where they may. Whether it's here or anywhere else we go in life, we should always treat others as we would hope to be treated. If you have a gripe and somebody needs to get an earful, go for it. On the other hand, it might be a good thing to also recognize the positives along the way.

[Michael J.]

Re: The Graying of NCRS

I am always surprised when I talk to people in local clubs who either have not heard of NCRS or have no interest in it without really understanding us. It almost seems that most of these people don't understand that NCRS membership is not all exclusive, and that it would be a good addition to thier present club membership. All of these conversations that I've had were with local club members that had cars which appeared very close to "factory correct". What I'm saying here is that I believe that there is an untapped NCRS membership potential in the local clubs, as well as people in thier 40's who are just getting to know the hobby.

Paul

This is very true, I belong to two local area Corvette clubs and most all members are not nor do they want to be NCRS members. There is only one who like me is a member of NCRS and a local Corvette club. But again, the interests are very different, most car club members have C5 and C6s, with a few C4s, whereas our regional NCRS in our state is 80% C2 with a few C1s and C3s. That is one problem, the other is that our local meetings are absorbed with talk of show and shine car shows, cruises, charity car show events, and tech talk about tire options for C6s, shocks for C5s, ways to increase performance on C5s and 6s with numerous aftermarket parts, what the C7 will look like or videos of the Corvette factory tours, etc. My NCRS meetings are all about tiny details of some alternator numbers from 1967, recognizing original equipment seats and side pipes, what to do about stamp pads now that Bloomington is changing, etc. Totally different scope of interests. I just don't see how that will ever come together, and maybe it shouldn't anyway, but it is very hard to impossible to get these guys interested in NCRS. Maybe if the Sportsman class was better defined, promoted, and understood, but that is just an ignored part of most meets I have been to.