aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

[Paul J.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

Most stations buy thier fuel from oil jobbers, and they're the ones who blend in the ethanol. I imagine that Matt's problem could have been in the fact that the fuel in his tank had a lot of ethanol in it. The oil jobbers don't mix in the ethanol when they add it, and that's why it will sometimes say on the pump that "This fuel MAY contain UP TO 10% ethanol". If he got gas with a large amount of ethanol, it could easily cause the vaporlock issues in the hot weather.

If there is no local or state regulation requiring the retailers to sell ethanol laced fuels, then it's up to them and the oil jobbers as to whether they add it or not.

I've never heard of treating gasoline to remove ethanol, but now I'm interested and I'll do a little research. I hope I don't end up knee deep in "snake oil".

[Duke W.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

True. I've heard that a 10% addition of ethanol in fuel is good for about a 10% reduction in fuel mileage. I guess that means we come out even?

Ten percent ethanol by volume has about three percent less energy than straight gasoline, and three percent is also the typical reduction in fuel economy. That's about 1 MPG on a 30 MPG car.

On a vintage Corvette it's noise level.

Duke

[Rich G.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

There is a farmer/pilot here on LI who removes the ethanol using a big tank and adding water. The water and ethanol combine after a while and he drains the bottom until he gets gas. He uses this in a vintage airplane with a Kinner engine which has VERY low compression and would probably run on soft coal if it would fit through the fuel lines.

I think this was discussed before and someone pointed out that this would result in a lower octane after the ethanol is removed, but I don't know how much. It also assumes that the gas has a known percentage of ethanol.

I didn't ask how he gets rid of the ethanol laced water.

Rich

[Chuck G.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

I didn't ask how he gets rid of the ethanol laced water.

Rich

Probably hauls it to North Carolina or Tennessee and sells it as Moonshine.

Chuck

[Duke W.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

There is a farmer/pilot here on LI who removes the ethanol using a big tank and adding water. The water and ethanol combine after a while and he drains the bottom until he gets gas. He uses this in a vintage airplane with a Kinner engine which has VERY low compression and would probably run on soft coal if it would fit through the fuel lines.

I think this was discussed before and someone pointed out that this would result in a lower octane after the ethanol is removed, but I don't know how much. It also assumes that the gas has a known percentage of ethanol.

I didn't ask how he gets rid of the ethanol laced water.

Rich

I don't think I'd want to fly with him. Bubba lives in the aviation world, too.

Duke

[Michael H.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

I don't think I'd want to fly with him. Bubba lives in the aviation world, too.

Duke

That's what I was thinking too.

[G A.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

There is a farmer/pilot here on LI who removes the ethanol using a big tank and adding water. The water and ethanol combine after a while and he drains the bottom until he gets gas. He uses this in a vintage airplane with a Kinner engine which has VERY low compression and would probably run on soft coal if it would fit through the fuel lines.

I think this was discussed before and someone pointed out that this would result in a lower octane after the ethanol is removed, but I don't know how much. It also assumes that the gas has a known percentage of ethanol.

I didn't ask how he gets rid of the ethanol laced water.

Rich

Sounds acceptable to me. All aircraft (well, almost all) since the 1920's have a sump drain in the fuel tank to remove water that collects in the tanks over time. A mandatory practice during pre-flight is to sump each tank to insure the moisture is removed to prevent problems in flight. So what's wrong with sumping the storage tank first? If the addition of water removes the alcohol, or most of it anyway, more power to him. I wouldn't have a problem flying with him.

Dan

[Timothy B.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

Is there any advantage cutting regular pump ethonal fuel with five gallons of 100LL or is it a waste of $$.

[Chuck G.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

Is there any advantage cutting regular pump ethonal fuel with five gallons of 100LL or is it a waste of $$.

I think the advantage is a little octane boost, Tim. Nothing to lose by trying it. Last I checked down here, 100LL AvGas was about $4.85/gallon at Dunnellon airport. It was about $5.15/gallon at Crystal River .

BTW, can you still buy 100LL AvGas at Fallston Airport? That operation seemed to be to be on its' last legs before I moved.

I know you can get it at the Aldino Airport. Although I never tried, you might be able to get some at Forest Hill Air Park.

Chuck

[Duke W.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

You can get a higher octane blend, cheaper, by using premium. Figure 100LL is 100 MON, 108 RON, and 104 PON and linearly proportion to get a decent approximation of the blend octane.

For the few engines that detonate on unleaded premium a blend of no more than 25 percent 100LL avgas should do the trick, which would be close to 96 PON, 100 RON if the premium mogas is 93 PON.

Duke

[Michael W.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

Is there any advantage cutting regular pump ethonal fuel with five gallons of 100LL or is it a waste of $$.

Tim-

What specific problems are you trying to fix? I presume that your car is not suffering from detonation, so are you having problems with vapour lock/peculation?

If the answer is still no, then any witches brew would indeed be a waste.

[Timothy B.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

Michael,

I am not having any problems with detonation just wanted to try some fuel that did not have ethonal. There is no ethonal free premium in my area that I am aware of and it's hot here in Md., car runs just fine.

[Michael W.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

car runs just fine.

Glad to hear it!

[Patrick S.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

I usually run 100LL in my 1962 FI but I plan to do some road trips and can't carry more AVGAS. So I tried a mixture, 1/4 tank 100LL and 10 gal of 93 with ethanol. It ran OK but when I stopped, she would not start (just like it used to before 100LL). Right now I don't know what to do. I am wondering if different brands of gas are better. So far all of the gas stations I know of have 10% ethanol. My planned road trips may become a POA.
Pat 12382

[George J.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

Pat,
what brand of gas did you use? I use Shell 93 with nothing else in my '65 fi car and it starts and runs every time. As far as I know it has 10% ethanol.

George