aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

[David A.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

i have never tried 100LL in my '56
but am aware that to fill it up with this
is a good idea while it sits during
the cold winter months here in iowa!
perhaps i'll do a 1/2 1/2 mix this winter
and see what happens.

BTW, i'm a pilot with
a 1951 Cessna 170A taildragger
and burn 100LL all the time in it
also use auto 87 octane as stated above too.
happy driving n flying
iowa

[Ronald L.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

Ethanol as all alcohols are hygroscopic - that means they suck up the water in the air. It will always cause you problems for cars that have fuel systems not designed for constant corrosive contact of that bad actor.

That's the only reason I run non ROH gasoline which is very hard to find in MI.

On a similar note - my daily vehicle drops to 15 mpg with BP, and Marathon, its up at 18 - why???

Alcohol content.

[Jim T.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

Dan, several states (including Texas, I believe) have included requirements for ethanol fuels as part of thier State Implementation Plan (SIP). For the most part, this plan is required by EPA to bring non-attainment areas of the State back into compliance. Non-attainment areas are those that have an average peak concentration (of O3 - ozone in this case) higher than the standard set by the EPA. While this regulation is a POS, it prevents more draconian measures from being imposed on industry. Any State that has this plan will have laws governing the seasons and areas that ethanol enhanced fuels are found. Ethanol is added to fuel as an oxygenate and a replacement for methyl tertiary butyl ether (MBTE), which you may remember from the seventies. Now it's being promoted as part of Obama's energy policy for fuel independance. One other thing, EPA has announced that they will significantly lower the ambient ozone standard. Those areas that have problems now will see very significant changes in the vehicles and gasoline powered devices allowed to be sold, the fuels which can be purchased, the availability of transprtation improvement funds, and the industries which can operate there.

Paul

Imposed on industry are interesting words. Just recently a new electric plant was bought on line near me. I live 80+ miles from Memphis, Tn. This new electric plant was built to supply electricity for Memphis, TN. Large jet engines are the power to generate the electricity.

[Michael H.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

On a similar note - my daily vehicle drops to 15 mpg with BP, and Marathon, its up at 18 - why???

Alcohol content.

True. I've heard that a 10% addition of ethanol in fuel is good for about a 10% reduction in fuel mileage. I guess that means we come out even?

[Paul Y.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

THAT'S why I use it on occasion, but I do have to admit that since I started using the NO ETHANOL high test, my 63 runs like a scalded dog.

Runs like it did in the old days, pre-ethanol.

I currently don't have a precise mixing formula, but I will say that I now only use the non ethanol high test from the pump. When I get to the local airport, I'll fill one or two 5 gallon jugs with 100LL AvGas.

A few years ago, I used to buy a 5 gallon jug of CAM 2 on occasion, but the price down here is pushing $8.00 per gallon now.

Chuck

Chuck, I agree that using non ethanol fuel makes my fuely start and run like nothing else. I can procure it easy in the city of Lakewood but on a road trip I have to be satisfied with the ethanol junk. I am still getting 20+ MPG in the high country of over 10000 feet. I'm happy and love driving it.

[G A.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

Dan, several states (including Texas, I believe) have included requirements for ethanol fuels as part of thier State Implementation Plan (SIP). For the most part, this plan is required by EPA to bring non-attainment areas of the State back into compliance. Non-attainment areas are those that have an average peak concentration (of O3 - ozone in this case) higher than the standard set by the EPA. While this regulation is a POS, it prevents more draconian measures from being imposed on industry. Any State that has this plan will have laws governing the seasons and areas that ethanol enhanced fuels are found. Ethanol is added to fuel as an oxygenate and a replacement for methyl tertiary butyl ether (MBTE), which you may remember from the seventies. Now it's being promoted as part of Obama's energy policy for fuel independance. One other thing, EPA has announced that they will significantly lower the ambient ozone standard. Those areas that have problems now will see very significant changes in the vehicles and gasoline powered devices allowed to be sold, the fuels which can be purchased, the availability of transprtation improvement funds, and the industries which can operate there.

Paul

Paul,

So this absolutely precludes a station from selling alcohol-free gas if it is located in one of these areas? Or does it penalize the area? I checked the Pure Gas website and the closest station with pure gas is 160 miles away. Fortunately that station is near where I have land I hunt. So if nothing else maybe I can piss-off PETA and the EPA in one shot (no pun intended ).

Dan

[Paul J.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

Just called our local marina (Florida!) and they have ethanol free 89 octane. Could there be any other issue with marine fuel when utilizing in our cars?

Ron beat me to it. Ethanol (alcohol) is hydroscopic, and that's probably why marine fuels don't have it.

[Paul J.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

Imposed on industry are interesting words. Just recently a new electric plant was bought on line near me. I live 80+ miles from Memphis, Tn. This new electric plant was built to supply electricity for Memphis, TN. Large jet engines are the power to generate the electricity.

These would be gas turbines, long used for restarting coal fired base load plants and power grids after a blackout or shutdown. They burn natural gas, which is now very much in favor because of our abundant supply. I believe that it was Carter who brought natural gas fired power plants into disfavor, because of the NOx emissions from these plants.

By "imposed on industry", EPA goes after fixed sources (industires) first, and promulgates regulations before the technology exists. Companies cannot wait around with an idle factory while new and untested production methods are invented, so they move. Sometimes to other states, sometimes to Mexico and Guatamala in the past, and now to Malaysia, India, and China.

[G A.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

Dan, several states (including Texas, I believe) have included requirements for ethanol fuels as part of thier State Implementation Plan (SIP). For the most part, this plan is required by EPA to bring non-attainment areas of the State back into compliance. Non-attainment areas are those that have an average peak concentration (of O3 - ozone in this case) higher than the standard set by the EPA. While this regulation is a POS, it prevents more draconian measures from being imposed on industry. Any State that has this plan will have laws governing the seasons and areas that ethanol enhanced fuels are found. Ethanol is added to fuel as an oxygenate and a replacement for methyl tertiary butyl ether (MBTE), which you may remember from the seventies. Now it's being promoted as part of Obama's energy policy for fuel independance. One other thing, EPA has announced that they will significantly lower the ambient ozone standard. Those areas that have problems now will see very significant changes in the vehicles and gasoline powered devices allowed to be sold, the fuels which can be purchased, the availability of transprtation improvement funds, and the industries which can operate there.

Paul

Paul,

So this absolutely precludes a station from selling alcohol-free gas if it is located in one of these areas? Or does it penalize the area? I checked the Pure Gas website and the closest station with pure gas is 160 miles away. Fortunately that station is near where I have land I hunt. So if nothing else maybe I can piss-off PETA and the EPA in one shot (no pun intended ).

Dan

[Paul J.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

Paul,

So this absolutely precludes a station from selling alcohol-free gas if it is located in one of these areas? Or does it penalize the area? I checked the Pure Gas website and the closest station with pure gas is 160 miles away. Fortunately that station is near where I have land I hunt. So if nothing else maybe I can piss-off PETA and the EPA in one shot (no pun intended ).

Dan

Not absolutely, there are ways around some of this. For example, I live on a County line. The County that I live in was non-attainment at one time, and our State plan dictated ethanol additives in fuels. The regulators wanted the neighboring County to also be non-attainment, but I have a say in the matter and prevented it so I could fill up down the street and avoid ethanol in my cars. This was a while ago and things have changed, but there are ways which can be unique to each state. Labeling fuel as "Off Road Use Only" is another way around it. States can also simply (sic) choose another method to try to reduce emissions.

If a station is selling non ethanol fuels, you can be 99% sure that it's legal, so buy all you want and forget the bureaucrats and tree huggers.

Paul

[Matt L.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

well...i drove most of the "bad" gas out thurs night. i then filled 95% up with 100LL. my car came alive and started running like it always has. i believe it was just bad 92. i drove 2 1/2 hrs there then topped off 10 gallons sunoco 93 before coming home. no issues at all. engine temp was 170 all the way running 65-70 cranking 3500 to 3700 rpms. the intown stoplights were no issue either. temp here yesterday was in the 90s. very warm and humid!
i appreciate all the feedback guys!!! its just very aggrevating when i have no issues before then 1 tank of gas changes my car.
take care,
matt

[Chuck G.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

well...i drove most of the "bad" gas out thurs night. i then filled 95% up with 100LL. my car came alive and started running like it always has. i believe it was just bad 92. i drove 2 1/2 hrs there then topped off 10 gallons sunoco 93 before coming home. no issues at all. engine temp was 170 all the way running 65-70 cranking 3500 to 3700 rpms. the intown stoplights were no issue either. temp here yesterday was in the 90s. very warm and humid!
i appreciate all the feedback guys!!! its just very aggrevating when i have no issues before then 1 tank of gas changes my car.
take care,
matt

Glad to hear you solved the problem. Sounds like a load of "bad gas", i.e. water in it.

Now, since there are a lot of interested readers here on this thread, let me throw out something that I heard the other day, at the Mystic Gas Station in Crystal River, FL. I was filling up the 69.

The station owner and I were talking cars, boats, and non ethanol fuel

He tells me that SOME stations (not his) sell non ethanol fuel that has been treated somehow to remove the ethanol. His ethanol free gas is NOT treated. His never had ethanol in it.

So, I got to thinking...

What does one use to remove the ethanol? Is this something an enthusiast can do himself?

Does anybody know?

Ya know, I have a BS degree in Chemistry from back in 1967/1968, but I never used my degree.....wasted it going to Dental School.

Chuck

[Bill B.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

Glad to hear you solved the problem. Sounds like a load of "bad gas", i.e. water in it.

Now, since there are a lot of interested readers here on this thread, let me throw out something that I heard the other day, at the Mystic Gas Station in Crystal River, FL. I was filling up the 69.

The station owner and I were talking cars, boats, and non ethanol fuel

He tells me that SOME stations (not his) sell non ethanol fuel that has been treated somehow to remove the ethanol. His ethanol free gas is NOT treated. His never had ethanol in it.

So, I got to thinking...

What does one use to remove the ethanol? Is this something an enthusiast can do himself?

Does anybody know?

Ya know, I have a BS degree in Chemistry from back in 1967/1968, but I never used my degree.....wasted it going to Dental School.

Chuck

Chuck, that's a good question. I personally believe you will receive a broader response if you constitute a new thread.

Bill

[Michael W.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

The station owner and I were talking cars, boats, and non ethanol fuel

He tells me that SOME stations (not his) sell non ethanol fuel that has been treated somehow to remove the ethanol. His ethanol free gas is NOT treated. His never had ethanol in it.

So, I got to thinking...

What does one use to remove the ethanol? Is this something an enthusiast can do himself?

Does anybody know?

Ya know, I have a BS degree

I think your buddy has a degree in BS.

[Chuck G.]

Re: aviation fuel in 64 fuelie

I think your buddy has a degree in BS.

NOT my buddy, just the guy who owns the station. I'm just repeatin' what he was sayin'.

Mike, you know I'm a gullible, trusting individual.

I'm not an Injuneer, who has to know every erg, joule, and dyne.

Why would the guy blow smoke at me? I'm sure my $40.00 gas purchase wasn't going to make him or break him.

PLUS, he's almost got the market cornered. Only one other place in my County sells Non Ethanol fuel.

Chuck