ONE or TWO? 1967 small block C60 RH inner fender Hose Clip/Hose Bracket (GM 3841336)

[Scott S.]

Re: ONE or TWO? 1967 small block C60 RH inner fender Hose Clip/Hose Bracket (GM 38413

Brackets were dip painted black. If you are fortunate you will be able to see the AS stamping on the bracket. The 65 you show Scott is a 65 I was assembeling 2 years ago. Original fender skirt and original holes for the brackets.

Rich

Thanks Rich, dip-paint it is then. I checked both of my hose clips closely, but no "A S" stamp. I was hoping there would be, I have been taking notes about all the stampings and embossings that I find on various parts. I have found the "A S" stamp on both of the lower "V" ignition shields (stamped on center bracket) and on all of the clips on the underside of the seat. Also, as a headmark on some of my Grade 8 bolts (e.g., all four of the bolts that attach the strut rod bracket, and a few of my AC compressor bracket bolts).

Just today I found a new stamping, don't know how I missed it before, "ds" (or "sp"?) just like the back of the front license plate bracket, except larger, stamped on the top-side of the fuel tank support cross-member (UPC 8-B1, Item 5, 3841459 "Support").

[Scott S.]

Re: ONE or TWO? 1967 small block C60 RH inner fender Hose Clip/Hose Bracket (GM 38413

Scott the 2 pictures you had saved and posted are from a 65 via the code on the hose I think. Also it had the STV valve and not a later model. I wonder which clamp is correct on the a/c car in respect to the T for the tank. Mine came as a kit and use the rings on the firewall but the whittic syle on the T. I know I mispelled Whittick or however it spells. Mike

Mike, regarding the hose clamps, I researched this a while back and started a Thread on the subject where both John Hinckley and Michael Hanson posted (https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...lamps&uid=4566). If I understood correctly, their comments applied to 1965-1967 small blocks with C60.

[Scott S.]

Re: ONE or TWO? 1967 small block C60 RH inner fender Hose Clip/Hose Bracket (GM 38413

My 67 has two clamps. One for the upper coolant hoses running forward and one for the lower heater hoses running around the compressor. Just like in the second picture in the post prior to this. Couldn't find a clear picture of it on mine.


Kirk

Thanks for the post Kirk. I should have checked the JG more carefully, just found the following:

"All cars, except air conditioned cars, use two hose clips finished in dark green oxide to retain heater hoses. Air conditioned cars route the heater hoses through a metal loop attached to the lower front of the compressor mounting bracket. In addition, air conditioned cars will have a metal fender bracket, painted semi-gloss black, that is secured to the skirt with two cadmium or zinc plated hex head bolts through which the heater hoses are routed." -p. 85

Breaking it down:

"All cars, except air conditioned cars, use two hose clips finished in dark green oxide to retain heater hoses."
I think this refers to the hose clips referenced on 1ASM-D7, Item 5, 3770259 "Clip". There are two shown, but not applicable to C60 cars (or this discussion).

"Air conditioned cars route the heater hoses through a metal loop attached to the lower front of the compressor mounting bracket."
This "metal loop" is called out on C60-D3, Item 12, 3853968. I understand this part, but I am still unclear about what retains the two Refrigerant hoses along the RH inner fender, because the next sentence shows that the only inner fender Hose clip mentioned for 1967 is used to retain the two Heater hoses already mentioned above.

"In addition, air conditioned cars will have a metal fender bracket, painted semi-gloss black, that is secured to the skirt with two cadmium or zinc plated hex head bolts through which the heater hoses are routed."
This must be Hose Clip 3741336, as configured and pictured on C60-D3. There is only ONE such Hose Clip mentioned in the JG or shown on C60-D3, used to retain the Heater Hoses on their way to the "metal loop" on the lower front of the A6 Compressor, as mentioned in the previous JG quote.


It seems that the drawing on C60-D7, showing the Refrigerant Hoses going through Hose Clip 3841336, cannot be correct, unless ALL FOUR HOSES (two Heater Hoses and two Refrigerant Hoses) are to be retained by a single 3841336 Hose Clip. I don't think all four hoses will fit inside one 3841336 Hose Clip.

The JG agrees with John (and I certainly want to agree with John!), one 3841336 Hose Clip on the RH inner fender of C60 cars in 1967, used to retain only the two Heater Hoses. Kirk, your '67 has two, configured like Mike's '65 and the '65 that Rich was restoring two years ago. I don't understand why yours would be configured like 1965 (and possibly 1966, although that has not been established yet).


So the next question then, appears to be this: for a 1967 small block with C60 (and L79, if that makes any difference), if a second 3841336 Hose Clip is not used to retain the two Refrigerant Hoses, then what SHOULD retain the two Refrigerant Hoses along the RH inner fender skirt on their way to the Condenser and Receiver/Drier, in 1967?

.

[Neal K.]

Re: ONE or TWO? 1967 small block C60 RH inner fender Hose Clip/Hose Bracket (GM 38413

Scott,
Did you ever get your questions fully answered? I agree that the heater hoses on a SB with C60 go thru one of the U shaped brackets mounted to the fender skirt and then thru a loop mounted to the front of the compressor. This is shown on UPC C60 page D-3. To me page D-7 depicts 2 additional U shaped brackets holding the refrigerant lines which are also mounted to the inner fender skirt in a more forward location than the bracket holdoing the heater hoses. I count in total 3 brackets. 1 for the the heater hoses and 2 for the refrigerant hoses. This is consistant with how they were mounted on my car when it was disassembled and without evidence to the contrary I plan to reinstall the same 3 brackets. I am however questioning the correct mounting location of the 2 refrigerant brackets. The AIM page D-7 seems to show them mounted on the inner fender skirt in line with the rear of the compressor. Mine were mounted much more toward the front of the car. I did find 2 dimples in the fender skirt in the general location of the holes for one of the refrigerant brackets.
Any updated information on this topic would be appreciated and pictures even better.
Thanks
Neal

[Scott S.]

Re: ONE or TWO? 1967 small block C60 RH inner fender Hose Clip/Hose Bracket (GM 38413

Neal,

I have not seen or heard of three brackets (GM 3841336 hose clips) being used on any one 1963-1967 Corvette, although there may be “dimples” for three brackets to accommodate BB vs. SB hose routing in previous years (65-66?) that remained in the inner fender molds through the 1967 model year. I have read here on the forum that often the holes were not actually drilled where the dimples are located, but close by.

The RH inner fender skirt part numbers changed every year from 1963-1967, but according to Dobbins’ 1963-1967 Fact Book, it was during the 1966 model year (or beginning of 1966 model year?) that indentations were molded into the RH inner fender to accommodate the *Heater Hoses* (picture on p. 238, 9^th edition), and this feature was continued for 1967.

For 1964-1965 the heater hose clip (GM 3841336) was located 5.50” toward the firewall from the rear of the dust shield, but the location of this same GM 3841336 hose clip was changed to 3.50” toward the firewall from the rear of the dust shield for 1966-67. It appears that the molded indentation for the heater hoses is what required the position of the heater hose clip to be moved 2” closer to the front of the car.

The 67JG says the RH inner fender Hose Clip is to retain the *Heater Hoses*, the 1966-67 AIMs re-locate the hose clip to accommodate the indentations for the lower set of hoses (heater hoses), and John says only one inner fender hose clip was used in 1967.


Ergo, the 1967 upper set of hoses (refrigerant hoses), absent any other restraint mechanism, must be suspended and retained by _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ .

It's that last part that seems to be causing all the trouble.

If anyone is able to fill in that blank, it would be most helpful

[Michael M.]

Re: ONE or TWO? 1967 small block C60 RH inner fender Hose Clip/Hose Bracket (GM 38413

Scott I will take some more pictures as mine is now finished with the engine installed. If it is not 100% correct I am certain some will chime in. Thanks Mike

[Wayne W.]

Re: ONE or TWO? 1967 small block C60 RH inner fender Hose Clip/Hose Bracket (GM 38413

OK, Here goes. This is my original SB AC Auto, AOS car , about 13500 ish serial number. Interesting thing is that it has the one forward clamp and has bolts installed at the lower rear position but no clamp. Don't know if that is an AOS thing or not.

[Neal K.]

Re: ONE or TWO? 1967 small block C60 RH inner fender Hose Clip/Hose Bracket (GM 38413

Wayne, Thanks for the pictures.
Scott, Unless my eyes are deceiving me I see one bracket for the heater hoses(UPC C60 Sheet D3) and two brackets for the refrigerant hoses(UPC C60 Sheet D7). Take a look and tell me what you see. If the contention is that the actual assembly varied from the AIM specifications by eliminating one of the brackets then that is whole other issue.
Neal

[Scott S.]

Re: ONE or TWO? 1967 small block C60 RH inner fender Hose Clip/Hose Bracket (GM 38413

Wayne, Thanks for the pictures.
Scott, Unless my eyes are deceiving me I see one bracket for the heater hoses(UPC C60 Sheet D3) and two brackets for the refrigerant hoses(UPC C60 Sheet D7). Take a look and tell me what you see. If the contention is that the actual assembly varied from the AIM specifications by eliminating one of the brackets then that is whole other issue.
Neal

Neal,

I see the Heater Hose clip (GM 3841336) on C60-D3. That is the one that was moved 2" closer to the front of the car beginning with the 1966 AIM, presumably due to the indentations molded into the RH inner fender skirt making it impossible to bolt the hose clip where it was attached in 1964-1965. If I understand correctly, this is the Hose clip that is missing on Wayne's car, but his car does have the item 6 (GM 120706) bolt occupying the lower hose clip attachment hole.

On C60-D7 there are indeed two GM 3841336 hose clips shown in the main drawing, both labeled item "1". There is a "close-up" arrow pointing to the area that is labeled "A-E". I understood this to mean that, although both Hose clips are shown in the main drawing, it is an "either / or" situation, depending on whether the engine is SB or BB. If SB, then "View A" would apply (bottom RH corner), and if BB then "View E" would apply (upper RH corner), but not BOTH.

The curious thing is that the drawing of the forward-most hose clip (closest to the front of the car, appears to be parallel to the mid-point of the A6 compressor) is depicted in the exact same place for 1964-1965 small block in their respective AIMs, BUT, according to the 1966-1967 AIMs, C60-D7, "View E" ("Existing Dimples, Forward Set"), that Hose clip location has been re-assigned for use with RPO L36, and a "new" Hose clip closer to the firewall has been added (1966-67 AIMs) for the Small Block car, detailed in "View A", "Existing Dimples, Rearward Set".

Wayne's '67 small block appears to have the Refrigerant Hose Clip at the "Existing Dimples, Forward Set" big block location (parallel with the middle of the A6 compressor), and no Heater Hose clip at all. My GUESS at this point is, that the lower set of hoses (heater hoses) are being forced against RH inner fender skirt anyway, because of the way they are oriented (bending) and where they terminate, so with the new-for-1966 and 1967 indentations to "seat" the hoses against the RH inner fender, the Hose clip was no longer necessary.

If this is correct, then the 67JG is wrong, it should say that ONE Hose clip is used for the Refrigerant Hoses (and explain the difference, if any, in location for SB & BB Hose clips in actual practice), and confirm that there is NO Hose clip used for the lower set of hoses (the Heater Hoses).

That is my current understanding, based on the available evidence and Wayne's most recent pictures.

[Neal K.]

Re: ONE or TWO? 1967 small block C60 RH inner fender Hose Clip/Hose Bracket (GM 38413

Scott,
Thank you for taking the time to explain the hose orientation so thoroughly. I had looked at C60-D7 numerous times, read your posts and others and still overlooked the RPO L36 notation at the bottom of View E even though it is plain as day. Shame on me. Your explanation seems to be absolutely correct. So now we are left with whether the heater hose clip was eliminated in 1967 for the reason you indicate even though the 1967 AIM still shows it on C60-D3. This also leaves me with wondering why I had 3 clips on the fender skirt when the car was disassembled. Hopefully there will be more photos posted on this which will be of help. Without more I am inclined to put back 2 clips, one for the refrigerant hoses and one for the heater hoses.
Neal

[Scott S.]

Re: ONE or TWO? 1967 small block C60 RH inner fender Hose Clip/Hose Bracket (GM 38413

OK, Here goes. This is my original SB AC Auto, AOS car , about 13500 ish serial number. Interesting thing is that it has the one forward clamp and has bolts installed at the lower rear position but no clamp. Don't know if that is an AOS thing or not.

Wayne,

Thank you for the photos. Are the lower hoses (heater hoses) simply forced outward against the RH inner fender, "seated" into the indentations that were molded into the RH inner fender for 1966-67, making the hose clip at that location unnecessary?


In an unrelated question, should the expansion tank balance hose be routed outboard of the hood support? It was my understanding that all of the GM 3825551 push-in tie straps should be oriented with the loop upward, which would route the hose to the outside of the hood support, as claimed on p. 131 of the '67JG.

[Wayne W.]

Re: ONE or TWO? 1967 small block C60 RH inner fender Hose Clip/Hose Bracket (GM 38413

On mine there is no clip on the heater hose, but there are bolts in the holes for the clip. Whether it ever was there or not, I cant say for sure. I will look closer on the underside for evidence. The routing on the upper hose could have been changed. This car did have one of the infamous BB hoods installed at one time, so that is likely.

[Neal K.]

Re: ONE or TWO? 1967 small block C60 RH inner fender Hose Clip/Hose Bracket (GM 38413

Scott,
Regarding your expansion tank balance hose routing question, how do you interpret UPC 11-13 A4? The first 2 strap loops, closest to the firewall, appear orientated down. The 3rd loop, cosest to the radiator, appearsorientated up. And, the hood support is not shown. It does look like the hose bends upward before turning to the radiator which would cause me to conclude that it goes on the outward side of the hood support. If wayne were to reorientate his first 2 stra loops down and the last one up and route the hose behind the hood support I think it would look just like the AIM drawing on UPC 11-13 A4.
Neal

[Wayne W.]

Re: ONE or TWO? 1967 small block C60 RH inner fender Hose Clip/Hose Bracket (GM 38413

I am betting all were up. If you turned them down it would interfere with the AC bracket and hose and there would be a significant upward curve on the radiator end. Up is a much neater application.

[Neal K.]

Re: ONE or TWO? 1967 small block C60 RH inner fender Hose Clip/Hose Bracket (GM 38413

Wayne,
I can see that by looking at your Photos again. Do you agree that the hose should go outward of the hood support?
Neal