Why the blurred columns???

[Kenneth H.]

Re: Why the blurred columns???

Roger------


However, the situation with these GM records and the "blurred columns" is entirely different. The release of this information would not contribute one iota to the Corvette hobby. There's absolutely nothing there that would have any meaning, whatsoever, to the advancement of the hobby or the advancement of Corvette knowledge. The information only has the possible use of being usable to discredit fake documentation. In fact, it can't really be used to authenticate documents because the creator of the documents might be able to obtain the "blurred column" information from other sources (like original documents but those that don't show certain options now on the car).

Joe, thanks for the commentary. It's what I was trying to say but couldn't get right. It seems to me, knowing what we know now about the blurred columns and their use in document verification, that the primary use of the Document Verification Service will be to discredit obviously forged documents, unless there's something that I'm missing.

Are there other aspects to the Document Verification Service? For example, obvious mistakes in font usage might be an issue that will be reviewed (I hope). Are there any others? And for those who have already used the service, what does the verification document say? Are we verifing that the document is original from the factory? Or are we saying that the document complies with the standards used at the factory at the time of preparation of the document?

By the way, other than the Sales invoice from the dealer to the original owner, I don't have any documentation for my 'vette, so I won't be using the service. I just want to know for the future (maybe I'll get another 'vette sometime and may need the service).

Thanks.

[Dale C.]

Re: Why the blurred columns???

I'd just like to get my Driveline so I could see what I was talking about. We've got more toxic leaking going on than ***ushima.

[Stan E.]

Re: Why the blurred columns???

If NCRS doesn't have, judged cars,option lists how can they sell a judging history?

[Dale C.]

Re: Why the blurred columns???

OOPS! Is the ***ushima Dai-ichi power plant a bad word or is it just something out of the 7th column?

[Tom H.]

Re: Why the blurred columns???

If NCRS doesn't have, judged cars,option lists how can they sell a judging history?

I have never seen the Car Award Confirmation document, but I thought it only told the flight level and possibly the owner. I never thought it included the options or judging sheets ??? Am I wrong ? What exactly do you get with this service ?

[Dick W.]

Re: Why the blurred columns???

If NCRS doesn't have, judged cars,option lists how can they sell a judging history?

The Confirmation Service only tells the date, type of event (regional, national, or chapter) and the award received. NO WHERE does it infer as to the options, color, trim, white walls, black walls, curb feelers, foxtails, anything else.

It is Nothing More or Less than what is stated.

The process has been explained about twenty different ways, but some want to change the wording, meaning, results. I think 'nuff has been said about this.

[Stan E.]

Re: Why the blurred columns???

Sorry but that's how I learn. Got ya. Don't pop a button,chill and thanks for the info. stan

[Dale C.]

Re: Why the blurred columns???

I've got it, post it and then destroy it, as Joe says. Then everybody will know what nobody knows for sure.

[John H.]

Re: Why the blurred columns???

It seems to me, knowing what we know now about the blurred columns and their use in document verification, that the primary use of the Document Verification Service will be to discredit obviously forged documents, unless there's something that I'm missing.

Ken -

I would think that most folks who take advantage of the service do so hoping to confirm that their paperwork agrees with GM records; if that's the case, they're happy, and they have one more piece of solid documentation.

[Kenneth H.]

Re: Why the blurred columns???

Ken -

I would think that most folks who take advantage of the service do so hoping to confirm that their paperwork agrees with GM records; if that's the case, they're happy, and they have one more piece of solid documentation.

John,

But couldn't that "one more piece of solid documentation" actually authenticate forged documents if a competent forger was attentive enough to copy the the Ident. Nos, Invoice Nos., etc. from the original build sheet of a run of the mill base engine corvette that has been "upgraded" to a more desirable big block, high horsepower model?

Our site says "NCRS will compare any of your GM documents to the GM records contained in the Shipping Report and if verification can be achieved, will establish the authenticity of your factory documents. Unfortunately, the shipping report does not contain the vehicle options. A letter containing the information you request will be mailed to your NCRS address on record."

Although I don't want an answer, the question begs "are these numbers (Ident, invoice) just randomly generated numbers, or is there more to them them than what has been discussed so far?", which can be used to weed out the forgeries. And again, are we looking just at these numbers for verification, or is there more to this service?

Thanks.

[John H.]

Re: Why the blurred columns???

Although I don't want an answer, the question begs "are these numbers (Ident, invoice) just randomly generated numbers, or is there more to them them than what has been discussed so far?", which can be used to weed out the forgeries. And again, are we looking just at these numbers for verification, or is there more to this service?

Thanks.

Ken -

If those are indeed the numbers in the "blurred columns", they were assigned by the plant when the dealer order was accepted, and by GM when the car was shipped; they're unique only to that car during that model year. If those same numbers appear on the owner-submitted paperwork, it's verified; if they don't, it's not. That's all those numbers can tell you - there's no color, trim, or option content information in them.

[Kenneth H.]

Re: Why the blurred columns???

Ken -

If those are indeed the numbers in the "blurred columns", they were assigned by the plant when the dealer order was accepted, and by GM when the car was shipped; they're unique only to that car during that model year. If those same numbers appear on the owner-submitted paperwork, it's verified; if they don't, it's not. That's all those numbers can tell you - there's no color, trim, or option content information in them.

John, thanks for the response. I figured that that was the case, but I wasn't sure. I just hope that it's not only those numbers that are used to verify documentation. Otherwise we could have a lot of fake documents floating around out there that for which the NCRS has "established the authenticity of".

Thanks.

[Wayne M.]

Re: Why the blurred columns???

I just had a chance to look at the new Restorer today, and the page chosen for the article just happens to be January 11th production. That's the day my car was made, so I scanned down the list of VINs and there she was, 07873 .....

Just got my Spring 2011 Driveline yesterday, so now I can see what the hullabaloo was about . I re-read the 80-some postings (whew) and conclude that, overall, good points were made and debated.

Turns out that I have the GM Canada sheet that includes the 11th January 1967 production shipped up north. They are the three cars identified by dealer code 21-000. As Mark Lincoln mentions in the article, this is "like winning the lottery" as all options and other info is listed.

So I just tossed back 3 Jack Daniels, and all becomes clear; the last 3 columns, that is.

As others have mentioned, the first fuzzy column is IDENT. NO.; second column is SHIPPER NO. , and the 3rd column is SHIPPED DATE. After all, the document is called a "MONTH CAR SHIPPED REPORT'.

There's a great discussion of the first and second column headings by Al Grenning in a previous fairly recent Driveline. Maybe someone can post the issue.

The 2nd column is (IMHO) the same as the "Order Number" that appears on the tank sticker.

This is all good stuff, if in honest hands. As the description of the 'Document Validation Service' states, ...confirms that the paperwork (submitted) does or does not agree with the information in the GM records in NCRS possession.

[Kenneth H.]

Re: Why the blurred columns???

This is all good stuff, if in honest hands. As the description of the 'Document Validation Service' states, ...confirms that the paperwork (submitted) does or does not agree with the information in the GM records in NCRS possession.

Yes, but Wayne, it also says "NCRS will compare any of your GM documents to the GM records contained in the Shipping Report and if verification can be achieved, will establish the authenticity of your factory documents". That's a big leap from "does or does not agree with the information in the GM records in NCRS possession", and that's what worries me.

Thanks.

[Tom H.]

Re: Why the blurred columns???

It's pretty simple. The service will do one of three things.

1. It will verify that the information contained on your known original documents is correct.

2. It will verify that the information on your documents is incorrect.

3. It will verify that your bogus original documents were created with the highest level of accuracy.

Period. No more, no less.