More Ethanol Into Gasoline

[Paul O.]

Here is a link to read EPA and the Obama administration to allow 15% Ethanol in a new gas blend.

Paul 18046



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-1...tml?cmpid=yhoo

[Francis F.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

I don,t imagine the higher % will do our older engines much good.

FRAN

[Larry S.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

Right now 15% ethanol gasoline is limited to 2007 and newer cars. They're still studying its safety for 2002-2006 cars. It'll be several months before the 15% stuff is available. I can't imagine a gas station would find it feasible to add more pumps.

[Clem Z.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

since ethanol reduces MPG,i have lost 10% in MPG since they have added 10% here in Pa. they say it will reduce dependence on foreign oil but the way i look at it i have to buy 10% more gasoline to travel the same distance. sounds like a $$$ maker for the oil companies to me.

[Kenneth T.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

Not just a money maker for the oil companies, every gallon is taxed in one form or another....who gets that.

This stuff has an affinity for water and will suck it up and form crap in the tank, lines and injectors. Not to mention the exhaust system and cat converters. It has questionable environmental effects. What is the upside?

The only winners are those that lobbied for the states that grow corn.

Totally political, just my rant. Except for that, all is well

[Jack H.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

From what I've read, it takes more fuel to produce one gallon of ethanol from corn than is saved in gasoline not to mention the increases in corn prices that then increases the cost of food and livestock. Then factor in the decrease in fuel mileage and performance and it then becomes a bigger negative.

All political from the corn producing states and the big companies that lobbied for this to make money from the production of ethanol. Not against cutting back on the money sent to the oil producing middle east, but this is a stupid way of doing in.

Can't blame Obama since all this crap started way before him.

[Doug F.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

sounds like a $$$ maker for the oil companies to me.

Please don't blame the oil companies for ethanol. We are the target of enough bad press. Besides, how does ethanol make money for the oil company? Maybe it does for the retailers, Monsanto and the corn farmers. But those of us that make a living in the O&G industry would prefer to sell O&G. I read an article yesterday where the tariff on imported ethanol was set to expire soon. Brazil could import their cane ethanol made from the waste of the sugar industry. I see no reason not to let the market work and let Brazil import some ethanol and let's keep the US corn crop making food and cattle feed as opposed to trying to turn it into ethanol with gov't subsidies and mandates.
Doug

[Clem Z.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

Please don't blame the oil companies for ethanol. We are the target of enough bad press. Besides, how does ethanol make money for the oil company? Maybe it does for the retailers, Monsanto and the corn farmers. But those of us that make a living in the O&G industry would prefer to sell O&G. I read an article yesterday where the tariff on imported ethanol was set to expire soon. Brazil could import their cane ethanol made from the waste of the sugar industry. I see no reason not to let the market work and let Brazil import some ethanol and let's keep the US corn crop making food and cattle feed as opposed to trying to turn it into ethanol with gov't subsidies and mandates.
Doug

i am not blaming the oil companies BUT they will sell more product because of less MPG. they just jumped the price of gasoline more than $20/gal in less than 2 weeks because of the speculators bidding up the crude.

[William C.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

Call your congressman! The corn lobby is in bed with the environmental lobby to drive this stuff, despite the studies that say it creates more problems than it solves. VOTE next month!

[Dan M.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

Jack

You are right on. While I am NOT an expert by any means, I did do a research thesis my senior year in Engineering school on Ethanol production. That was in 1982. As you stated, the bottom line was that you would use MORE gasoline to produce ethanol than gas you would save by burning the gas/ethanol mix. It is all arm waving driven by the tree huggers who haven't a clue. And watch as our food prices jump up now because corn is being diverted to ethanol production instead of food uses. While we maybe can't blame Obama for this wacko idea, we can certainly throw stones on this Congress for expanding a bad idea to extremes. VOTE THE PIGS OUT OF OFFICE in November!

[Domenic T.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

since ethanol reduces MPG,i have lost 10% in MPG since they have added 10% here in Pa. they say it will reduce dependence on foreign oil but the way i look at it i have to buy 10% more gasoline to travel the same distance. sounds like a $$$ maker for the oil companies to me.

Clem,
If they measure emissions by the gallon I think thats also 10% more emissions.
That brings back memories of the knox device we had to install on our cars back in the 60/70's in CA. There was a reduction in emissions per gallon, but the extra gas the device made you use to get where you were going = more emissions overall.

DOM

[Jack H.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

Ethanol doesn't have to be produced from corn. Just about anything that's 'green' can ferment and yield ethanol. For whatever reason(s) we choose to target corn for ethanol production in the US.

Next, one of the stumbling blocks is the distribution channel. Due to rather low demand & the infancy of the industry, corn gets delivered to the fermenting plants and ethanol to the refineries primarily by truck vs. the pipelines that exist to handle oil. That's another cost/efficiency roadblock.

On the mileage issue, that's simply a matter of economics. If ethanol were priced according to its BTU content relative to gasoline, there wouldn't be an issue here...

[Paul J.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

Can't blame Obama since all this crap started way before him.

Jack, you and Dan need to pay attention. Maybe Osama did'nt start this, but he's making it happen. Lisa Jackson works for him.

"The Obama administration granted a request from ethanol producers to increase concentrations of the corn-based fuel additive in gasoline for vehicles made for 2007 and later."

This is one thing in a long list of things that the EPA is doing. Look up coal ash, refrigerants, and the ozone ambient standard if you want to see how agressive the EPA is under this administration. They are pushing several new rules that may not be beneficial. For example, the coal ash rules in particular, will be detrimental to the environment.

All of these things and more affect our hobby, not just ethanol.

A recession is not the time to promulgate expensive new rules and regulations. IMHO, this administration is out of touch.

Paul

[Terry M.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

Ethanol doesn't have to be produced from corn. Just about anything that's 'green' can ferment and yield ethanol. For whatever reason(s) we choose to target corn for ethanol production in the US.

Next, one of the stumbling blocks is the distribution channel. Due to rather low demand & the infancy of the industry, corn gets delivered to the fermenting plants and ethanol to the refineries primarily by truck vs. the pipelines that exist to handle oil. That's another cost/efficiency roadblock.

On the mileage issue, that's simply a matter of economics. If ethanol were priced according to its BTU content relative to gasoline, there wouldn't be an issue here...

[Paul J.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

On the mileage issue, that's simply a matter of economics. If ethanol were priced according to its BTU content relative to gasoline, there wouldn't be an issue here...

Except that ethanol costs considerably more to produce than petroleum based fuels.