More Ethanol Into Gasoline

[Doug F.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

Except that ethanol costs considerably more to produce than petroleum based fuels.

Especially when you are using corn rather than some other higher yield biomass. Hence the tariff's & lobbying for price supports and subsidies. That is where a 15% mandate will take us. I don't know about in your area, but in Oklahoma we still have the choice to buy 100% gas over the 10% E-blend, and stations have large banners promoting 100% Gasoline. Given the choice I don't think people are willing to migrate to the 15% E-blend. Eventually they will mandate a 15% or higher fuel and the Ethanol industry will complain that they cannot compete as long as gasoline is relatively cheap. Tariffs & Subsidies help, but they will eventually tax gasoline more like Europe so that ethanol is economically attractive at the expense or higher gasoline prices. And in times of budget shortfalls gasoline is easy money. We use over 9 million barrels of gasoline per day. At $0.4/gal in taxes that works out to over $150 million per day or $55 billion per year.
Doug

[Joe L.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

Here is a link to read EPA and the Obama administration to allow 15% Ethanol in a new gas blend.

Paul 18046



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-1...tml?cmpid=yhoo

Paul------

It's my understanding that even when this 15% ethanol fuel becomes available, service stations must only sell it from separate pumps that are clearly labeled for use only in vehicles for which it is specifically approved (2007 and later as it stands right now). This might be expanded to 2001 and later if EPA testing validates it.

I see VERY FEW retailers willing to add another pump and tank system for a fuel that will have very limited applicability. In fact, I would expect that owners of cars that are approved to use it, but which of course, are not required to use it, will shun it due to the poorer mileage. So, I think the market will take care of this problem all by itself.

[Dick W.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

I got lucky today. I despise ethanol and the boondoggle that it is. I found a jobber that still has ethanol free gasoline at his plant. He told me that the tank he has gasoline in was manufacturered in 1927 and he could not afford the cost to clean it if he put ethanol in it.

[Joe L.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

I got lucky today. I despise ethanol and the boondoggle that it is. I found a jobber that still has ethanol free gasoline at his plant. He told me that the tank he has gasoline in was manufacturered in 1927 and he could not afford the cost to clean it if he put ethanol in it.

Dick------


That might work ok when you're in your local area, but when you're on the road it's not going to do much good.

[Dick W.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

It makes no economic sense whatsoever to convert corn into ethanol. There are millions of people around the world that are starving and we are converting food to fuel?

When I was planting corn, 10 years ago, I was told that you should be able to make a profit on $2.60 a bushel corn (56#). I just looked at the futures market and December delivery is trading for $5.67. You wonder what is driving this price? Ethanol. Remember that all the meat you eat is fed corn, a lot of the products that you use every day are partly manufactured using corn by products. Wait until this corn price trickles down thru the food chain.

Bunch of idiotic politicians

[Clem Z.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

It makes no economic sense whatsoever to convert corn into ethanol. There are millions of people around the world that are starving and we are converting food to fuel?

When I was planting corn, 10 years ago, I was told that you should be able to make a profit on $2.60 a bushel corn (56#). I just looked at the futures market and December delivery is trading for $5.67. You wonder what is driving this price? Ethanol. Remember that all the meat you eat is fed corn, a lot of the products that you use every day are partly manufactured using corn by products. Wait until this corn price trickles down thru the food chain.

Bunch of idiotic politicians

how about making moonshine from corn ????

[Michael W.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

Wait until this corn price trickles down thru the food chain.

Bunch of idiotic politicians

It already has Dick- look at the price of any crop that was displaced by the rush to get on the corn bandwagon.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

It makes no economic sense whatsoever to convert corn into ethanol. There are millions of people around the world that are starving and we are converting food to fuel?

When I was planting corn, 10 years ago, I was told that you should be able to make a profit on $2.60 a bushel corn (56#). I just looked at the futures market and December delivery is trading for $5.67. You wonder what is driving this price? Ethanol. Remember that all the meat you eat is fed corn, a lot of the products that you use every day are partly manufactured using corn by products. Wait until this corn price trickles down thru the food chain.

Bunch of idiotic politicians

It already has. That is why the price of beef is up. The low demand because of the economy & high price of feed & demand have put a lot of beef/hog raisers to cut back. You can't meddle in the free market because it has a effect on so many other things. The government needs to stay the hell out of free Enterprise but they want to not have to pay farmers subsidies & let the people do it with the ethanol. Corn is one of the worst ways to produce ethanol. As you said cane & beet sugar is a much more efficient alcohol producing crop.

[Dick W.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

how about making moonshine from corn ????

My ancestors figured out that it was easier to transport a finished product (shine) that it was to haul the raw ingredients. More profit.

[Paul D.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

Paul------

It's my understanding that even when this 15% ethanol fuel becomes available, service stations must only sell it from separate pumps that are clearly labeled for use only in vehicles for which it is specifically approved (2007 and later as it stands right now). This might be expanded to 2001 and later if EPA testing validates it.

I see VERY FEW retailers willing to add another pump and tank system for a fuel that will have very limited applicability. In fact, I would expect that owners of cars that are approved to use it, but which of course, are not required to use it, will shun it due to the poorer mileage. So, I think the market will take care of this problem all by itself.

Joe, I also feel very few retailers would make the capital expenditure to add more pumps. However, I FEAR that many would opt to carry only fuel for vehicles manufactured since 2007. Going forward, that would become the overwhelming majority of his customers. Looks like by the time I get my projects back together, I won't be able to buy fuel to play with them. Just my luck. Chip.

P.S. Please remember to vote next month, everybody!

[Paul J.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

how about making moonshine from corn ????

That's food, not feed or fuel. Secondly, it takes me a couple of weeks to drink a half gallon of shine (or 1 gallon of bourbon). I guess I get pretty good mileage.

[Joe L.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

Joe, I also feel very few retailers would make the capital expenditure to add more pumps. However, I FEAR that many would opt to carry only fuel for vehicles manufactured since 2007. Going forward, that would become the overwhelming majority of his customers. Looks like by the time I get my projects back together, I won't be able to buy fuel to play with them. Just my luck. Chip.

P.S. Please remember to vote next month, everybody!

Paul-------


The point is that the 15% ethanol fuel is only for vehicles manufactured since 2007 (and, at some point, perhaps back to 2001). However, it's not REQUIRED for any of those vehicles; it's just an option for them. The 10% (or less) ethanol fuel is usable by ALL gasoline powered vehicles from the present back, to as far as any ethanol was approved for use. So, why would a retailer want to carry a fuel that had limited applicability as opposed to a fuel that had much wider applicability, especially when even the people that have 2007 or newer vehicles probably don't want the E15 due to lower fuel mileage?

I wonder how many folks that have "flex fuel" (E85) capable vehicles actually use it even in areas where that fuel is commonly available? I mean, people outside of those that want to make an "environmental statement" or that have an interest in the ethanol producing industry. Most Chevrolet vehicles with 3.5L V-6 produced in the last 3 years, or so, have E85 capability but I'll bet that VERY few ever see a drop of it.

[Jack H.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

I wonder how many folks that have "flex fuel" (E85) capable vehicles actually use it even in areas where that fuel is commonly available? I mean, people outside of those that want to make an "environmental statement" or that have an interest in the ethanol producing industry. Most Chevrolet vehicles with 3.5L V-6 produced in the last 3 years, or so, have E85 capability but I'll bet that VERY few ever see a drop of it.

I have such a vehicle and it has never, nor will it if I can avoid it, had E85 run through it until we stop using corn to produce ethanol.

[Bill C.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

What changes to our cars will be necessary when E15 is the standard?

I changed the jets to deal with E10, will E15 really hurt the car any worse?

Just curious......

[Joe L.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

What changes to our cars will be necessary when E15 is the standard?

I changed the jets to deal with E10, will E15 really hurt the car any worse?

Just curious......

Bill------


I don't think that E15 is going to be the standard at any time in the future that's going to matter to most of us.