More Ethanol Into Gasoline

[Joe L.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

I have such a vehicle and it has never, nor will it if I can avoid it, had E85 run through it until we stop using corn to produce ethanol.

Jack------


When they finally perfect the process of producing cellulosic ethanol, the production of ethanol from corn will go back to being primarily for the alcoholic beverage market. That's a lot smaller than the fuel market.

[Ronald L.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

I am sure Duke can do the calculation that we all did back 30 years ago to show that MPG are down, and emissions up when you take into account the total effect, and the corn lobby with ADM and the Chem Ind behind it all.

Vote and keep voting.

There isn't anything good about 15%E and especially for the cars or out bank accounts. In the case of classics, av-gas will be cheaper if we don't nip this lunacy, or put it another way we'll have national health car for gasoline.

[John D.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

Better get your old Corvettes ready for the alky fuel. Yeah even the 10% is killing them now. A day doesn't go by that at least one or two people call to complain that there fuel injection has developed a bad leak or two.

When My Marine graduated from Parris Island I was lucky enough to put some non ethanol fuel in the GMC. Man did that thing fly. Had to keep letting up on the gas pedal. But as soon as that tank was history and I was forced to buy the corn fuel the GMC was back to it's normal choking self. The gas fumes from ethanol alone are enough to kill ya you know. Sorta like smelling big blocks all the time.
AV-gas is not legal for street use. Right???

[Doug F.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

AV-gas is not legal for street use. Right???

Technically I would say yes, if for not other reason, you are not paying the road taxes.
Doug

[Jack H.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

One possible solution is force ethanol 'credit' policy to apply only to NEW land under till to stop/reduce the cannibalization of the food supply chain...

[Joe L.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

Technically I would say yes, if for not other reason, you are not paying the road taxes.
Doug

Doug------



Plus, it's leaded. It's illegal to use leaded gasoline in any vehicle driven on a public street or highway.

[Thomas O.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

Apparently most of you are not aware that some state legislatures have Mandated 10 % ethanol in all grades of gas some states have had this law in effect for several years at least 10 yrs. Minnesota has `10% ethanol in all grades while North Dakota has ethanol as a state option, however; many cities are going to 10% ethanol in all grades. Ethanol is subsidized big time. There is some claim perhaps evidence that the efficiency of ethanol production is increasing , in other words energy produced is greater than energy consumed in production. That is the good news of this issue. tom

[Terry M.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

I don't see where the good news is Tom. Illinois is the home of Archer Daniels Midland (ADM) and we have had mandated 10% alcohol statewide for several years. I expect that the same political ruse will mandate 15% alcohol in the near future, and not just for Illinois. There is no stopping these people -- they just buy what they want, and they don't give a fig about the old car hobby or any old (pre-2007) cars for that matter.

[Joe L.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

I don't see where the good news is Tom. Illinois is the home of Archer Daniels Midland (ADM) and we have had mandated 10% alcohol statewide for several years. I expect that the same political ruse will mandate 15% alcohol in the near future, and not just for Illinois. There is no stopping these people -- they just buy what they want, and they don't give a fig about the old car hobby or any old (pre-2007) cars for that matter.

Terry------


Keep one thing in mind: ADM and some of their competitors are BIG companies. However, they're nowhere near as big a Exxon-Mobil, Shell, or Standard Oil of California. Those companies are the "anti ethanol" and they're pretty powerful, too.

I don't think you'll see E15 become too widespread until the EPA approves its use in cars going a long way back from 2001 and I don't think you're going to see that happen.

[Doug F.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

Joe,
You may be applying too much logic in assuming that the gov't or EPA would not mandate a higher Ethanol content. This administration is pro-green even if the initiatives are not truly green. And the oil companies are currently out of favor and have little bargaining power. I never would have imagined that the gov't would shut down deep water drilling for 6 months. Those deep water rigs and associated services cost close to $1million per day to operate. Right now the worst thing that could happen to big oil is if oil jumped to $120 per barrel. Record profits would start coming in again and our cash strapped gov't would confiscate the majority of it via windfall profits taxes.

[Joe L.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

Joe,
You may be applying too much logic in assuming that the gov't or EPA would not mandate a higher Ethanol content. This administration is pro-green even if the initiatives are not truly green. And the oil companies are currently out of favor and have little bargaining power. I never would have imagined that the gov't would shut down deep water drilling for 6 months. Those deep water rigs and associated services cost close to $1million per day to operate. Right now the worst thing that could happen to big oil is if oil jumped to $120 per barrel. Record profits would start coming in again and our cash strapped gov't would confiscate the majority of it via windfall profits taxes.

Doug------


I think the "saving grace" here is that the use of E15 in pre-2007 cars might cause problems which would increase emissions in those cars. That would "erase" a lot of the emissions reductions that the EPA and government tout. So, I think they'll be real careful before approving its use on a widespread basis. If it was just a question of causing non-emissions-related damage to pre-2007 cars, they probably would go ahead without too much concern, but with the emissions issue squarely at risk, I think they'll be a lot more cautious.

[Phil D.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

By about 2022, the number of vehicles on the road manufactured before 2007 will be a tiny fraction and they'll have another cash for clunkers in an effort to get rid of them. Corvettes might be popular enough that someone will market a retrofit kit to make them OK with the corn fuel, and perhaps the NCRS rules will relax to look the other way at such mods, but I own another classic car so rare that there will never be a repop part of any kind, let alone a corn fuel retrofit kit. I'm wondering if I'm going to have to set up a junior chemistry lab in my shop to separate the ethanol from my gas. I was reading about the EAA's ethanol test kit and the concept seems simple enough, but I'm no expert.

http://www.eaa.org/autofuel/autogas/test_kit.asp

No matter what, its going to be a major hassle if you're still in the old car hobby after about 2022. One thing I know about politicians and government is that no matter what science proves, they will never admit they were wrong and rescind legislation. They'll just spin it some other way, as if its still a good idea and keep running with it. Ethanol isn't going away until a whole new energy source is discovered and developed to replace it.

[Jim T.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

From what I've read, it takes more fuel to produce one gallon of ethanol from corn than is saved in gasoline not to mention the increases in corn prices that then increases the cost of food and livestock. Then factor in the decrease in fuel mileage and performance and it then becomes a bigger negative.

All political from the corn producing states and the big companies that lobbied for this to make money from the production of ethanol. Not against cutting back on the money sent to the oil producing middle east, but this is a stupid way of doing in.

Can't blame Obama since all this crap started way before him.

Jack do not know what the exact percentages are, but USA does use a lot of oil from South America, Mexico, and Canada.

[Ronald L.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

The only SA country with any oil is Venezuela and they sell most of it to the USA.

The solution is racing fuel or Av gas.

Illegal - O'h my god, here come the feds, and big brother is watching as soon as you trun the key on that calssic car that doen not have a chip communicating to what you think is the onstar satelite

The reason they want you to believe it is illegal is due to road use taxes and lead. 35 years ago we raced with av gas because it was higher octane for street rods, now adays the issue is more lead. Racing fuel is 75% tax due to lead.

Av gas may pay air space taxes but that's not the question here.

As a comparison, it is illegal for farmers to take that diesel in the oil tanks that is good enough to run in their tractors and put it in their trucks, but is big brother watching???


Besides guys - lets get real, with over 5 gas stations on one major state highway alone in a 20 mile stretch having racing gas, you KNOW the state is into this and it is LEGAL.


Use it and be happy and not ever worry about pre detonation.

BTW - I actually think the Racing fuel I'm using has alcohol in it

[Jim T.]

Re: More Ethanol Into Gasoline

So, ethanol free gas can be bought in NC, I knew it was available in OK and where I live in Jackson, TN. How many other locations have gasoline without ethanol?