Deduct for non-tinted repop 67 windshields?

[Jeff B.]

Re: Deduct for non-tinted repop 67 windshields?

I just want to thank you guys for sharing your consideration of replacing your brand new tinted windshields with non-tinted for 11 points. It makes me feel more normal after just spending $75.00 for a NOS Casco 63 lighter to pick up 4 points. That's about $19.00 per point. Once you start getting up to the 97-98% area, the points become more and more expensive. The battery is the one that really gets me. $300.00 for a really good reproduction and they still take 7 points because it's not real tar. Maybe I could melt some roofing tar and poor it on my new battery? I love this hobby!!

[Chris E.]

Re: Deduct for non-tinted repop 67 windshields?

Chris. Sounds like you can put on a non-tinted window that is properly logo'd (is that a verb?) and you'll be in like Flint.

I'm planning on seeing you at Novi.

Tony

I'll be there. I'll also be at the Joplin, MO regional.

The plan at this point is to try for my 97% at Joplin. I think I'll get it. My math shows that if I fix everything on my list EXCEPT for the windshield, I'll get a 97.9%. If I add the windshield into that mix, the car should get a 98.1%. (all assuming a perfect Ops)

Then, in Novi I'm going to try for a PV. I have a long list of things to fix between then and now, but I think I'll have an honest shot at it. If I need a "backup" shot at PV, I'll do that at our Regional in 2012 in Rochester, MN by just simply getting in the car and DRIVING it down (heh). Then, on to Nationals for my plaque.

Isn't this hobby fun?

[Steve B.]

Re: Deduct for non-tinted repop 67 windshields?

I just want to thank you guys for sharing your consideration of replacing your brand new tinted windshields with non-tinted for 11 points. It makes me feel more normal after just spending $75.00 for a NOS Casco 63 lighter to pick up 4 points. That's about $19.00 per point. Once you start getting up to the 97-98% area, the points become more and more expensive. The battery is the one that really gets me. $300.00 for a really good reproduction and they still take 7 points because it's not real tar. Maybe I could melt some roofing tar and poor it on my new battery? I love this hobby!!

I lost 9 points on my restoration battery on my 67 in Ohio, OUCH. That and my windshield is the only opportunity for picking up big points on my car. I would like to know if the date stamp/logo passes without a deduct?

[Chris E.]

Re: Deduct for non-tinted repop 67 windshields?

I lost 9 points on my restoration battery on my 67 in Ohio, OUCH. That and my windshield is the only opportunity for picking up big points on my car. I would like to know if the date stamp/logo passes without a deduct?

Steve, that was EXACTLY the reason for this thread. I haven't heard of anyone with first hand experience in this thread yet say "Yup, non-tinted repop windshield, zero deduct at regional or national".

That's what I was kind of hoping for.

Did everyone put in a tinted windshield????

[Steve B.]

Re: Deduct for non-tinted repop 67 windshields?

Steve, that was EXACTLY the reason for this thread. I haven't heard of anyone with first hand experience in this thread yet say "Yup, non-tinted repop windshield, zero deduct at regional or national".

That's what I was kind of hoping for.

Did everyone put in a tinted windshield????

I did not see a non tinted windshield on a 67 at the meet. If I was to guess, it would be that even a non tinted repop windshield would be caught due to non typical install or not liking the logo and/or date stamp.

[Terry B.]

Re: Deduct for non-tinted repop 67 windshields?

Chris,

I'm trying to do the same thing that you are with your car. Doing the math on the points is tricky. Does your math on the judging point deducts figure in the x-factor? By this I mean different judges see different things that are wrong with a car that may or may not be in the TJM. It is through their countless hours of judging that they have encounter certain things they look for in the car. A certain bolt head here, a certain washer there, can add up to 15 points or more. Perhaps you can make your car the subject of a Chapter judging schools that is run by master level judges. This might be a way for you to reduce the x-factor point loss. Good-Luck!

[Edward S.]

Re: Deduct for non-tinted repop 67 windshields?

In 2003 I won a Duntov - I mention the year because in reading all the posts on this Board it seems that the judging has gotten much harder. All I can tell you that if your counting possible points try for the largest cushion you can get. When I was going through all the steps, I would come home with my sheets and start making corrections. I would always try to make the best price to point corrections I could, I have a 65 L-78 and some of the one year only parts would mean leaving your first born with someone until your check cleared. I would go to my next show with a certain point number in my head, only to find enough new deductions to get to just about where I was at the first show. I did get the Duntov and went on to get my Triple Crown - but no matter what I corrected and spent I always scored between 97.5 and 97.9, getting too old now to think about over that 98.0 for once. I did pass my PV on the first shot which saved alot of time. Anyway always shoot for the moon when it comes to points, because something new is sure to come up.

[Chris E.]

Re: Deduct for non-tinted repop 67 windshields?

Anyway always shoot for the moon when it comes to points, because something new is sure to come up.

Hence the reason for this thread. Thanks for the reply Edward. Congrats on your Duntov, certainly a massive achievement!

[Chris E.]

Re: Deduct for non-tinted repop 67 windshields?

Chris,

I'm trying to do the same thing that you are with your car. Doing the math on the points is tricky. Does your math on the judging point deducts figure in the x-factor? By this I mean different judges see different things that are wrong with a car that may or may not be in the TJM. It is through their countless hours of judging that they have encounter certain things they look for in the car. A certain bolt head here, a certain washer there, can add up to 15 points or more. Perhaps you can make your car the subject of a Chapter judging schools that is run by master level judges. This might be a way for you to reduce the x-factor point loss. Good-Luck!

No, my math doesn't have the X-factor in it. However, here is how my points progressed across two Chapter and one Regional meet.

Exterior: 47, 64, 62 (first Chapter meet was kind on my paint, the other two gave me the 50% deduct I deserved, so if you add in those extra 13 points to the first event, the scores went 60, 64, 62)

Interior: 38, 26, 21 (goin' in the right direction!)

Chassis: 26, 28, 40 (ouch, but I've fixed about 10 of those points already)

Mechanical: 28, 11, 34 (fixed a few points here too, but at Regionals I took the 8 point standard deduct for battery for the first time)

Ops: 12, 4, 10 (fixed all but 2 of these)

Overall, the consistency of judging has been pretty good. I know the general thinking is that when you move from Chapter to Regional that your car will score worse. And mine did, but not in all categories. Exterior and Ops stayed flat, interior FELL, but chassis and mechanical increased.

If I fix everything EXCEPT the windshield, my calculated cushion will be 42 points over a 97%. In other words, I could fail one Ops item completely, and the judges could STILL find ANOTHER 17 points, and I'd still get a 97%.

The judges might find a few more things, but 17 points worth??? Kind of doubt it.

[Frederick W.]

Re: Deduct for non-tinted repop 67 windshields?

my windshield is a replacement Pilkington, nontinted (as original, my car did not have tint).
How much deduct for wrong logo/date?
Is the only correction pulling the windshield and replacing with a repop with correct logo/date, or can it be corrected on the car?

thanks
Fred

[Gene M.]

Re: Deduct for non-tinted repop 67 windshields?

my windshield is a replacement Pilkington, nontinted (as original, my car did not have tint).
How much deduct for wrong logo/date?
Is the only correction pulling the windshield and replacing with a repop with correct logo/date, or can it be corrected on the car?

thanks
Fred

The standard deducts are in the Reference Manual for dates. But you also need to be concern with the configuration of the LOF shield on the etching. There are obvious differences to a replacement and originals. Also the right side arrow configurations differ. The glass suppliers may have made these corrections of late.

[Chris E.]

Re: Deduct for non-tinted repop 67 windshields?

The judging reference manual doesn't really talk about the fine details of non-tinted windshields. It just shows the standard deductions. They are:

0% - OEM as described in the appropriate year TIM/JG, dated with 12 months prior to vehicle assembly
20% - as above, excepting only the date
30% - OEM brand, later service replacement style with correct tinting, if applicable
50% - OEM brand, with incorrectly configured tinting
90% - 1953-62 tinted front or side glass; or 1953-96 non-OEM brand replacement(s) or any year added tinting (film, etc)

The TIM/JG for 67 (4th edition, red cover) has this to say:

The standard windshield is non-tinted; however, tinted windshields are available as options A01 or A02. All windshield glass is manufactured by Libby-Owens-Ford (LOF) and carries an American Standard specification rating code of one (AS1), a manufacture date code, and the designation Safety Plate Laminated. Non-tinted glass carries the model number "M3". The LOF logo on the windshield is read from the inside of the car and appears backward when viewed from the outside of the car.

(it then gives a chart of the date codes)

Typically, a windshield is manufactured one to three months prior to the manufacture date of the car. Full credit will be allowed for any date within 1 year prior to car manufacture.

(it then goes on to talk about tinted glass)

So, I'm curious if anyone else has actually had a midyear that went through judging with a NON-tinted windshield and passed with zero deducts.

[Steve B.]

Re: Deduct for non-tinted repop 67 windshields?

Chris, at this point, I believe an email to the 67 team leader would possibly give you the answer that you are looking for. Nicks a good guy and my guess is that he will help you with this.

[Neal K.]

Re: Deduct for non-tinted repop 67 windshields?

Does anyone have a recommendation for a supplier of correct reproduction tinted window glass for a midyear?
Thanks
Neal

[Chris E.]

Re: Deduct for non-tinted repop 67 windshields?

I'm happy to report that the clear windshield received FULL CREDIT (zero deduct) in Regional Flight Judging.