Ethanol

[Wayne M.]

Re: Ethanol

.....People here in Florida have been stranded many miles offshore in their power boats when their in-hull fiberglass fuel tanks became a mess of jellied resin and blocked their fuel system.
.......Also ask a few here with 63 Z06 big-tankers.......the fiberglass tanks are literally getting "unglued"!

Not only the Z06's; also how many remain of the 148 non-'63 tankers (ie. 36 gal production in '64,65,66,67). There's been stories and some documented damage similar to power boats, but no laboratory-level studies (to my knowledge) on ethanol's effect on the fiberglass formulation used back-in-the-day on N03 option tanks.

Nevertheless, I keep a close watch on my '65 (now and then I bypass the factory fuel filter with a translucent bowl type to see if deposits are accumulating. So far so good, but much of that luck is due to residing in western Canada with very few tankfuls stateside since 1980. The provincial laws on the books allow up to 10%, but if you stay with the majors, they claim no ethanol (yet ).

We should also be concerned with the possibility that it's the other additives that are present, and may well be the culprit.

[Peter M.]

Re: Ethanol

Ethanol blends don't have higher octane because the base stock gasoline blended for ethanol addition has less. Similarly for higher octane "premium" gasoline.

Ten percent by volume "gasohol" has about 3 percent less energy, so fuel consumption will usually go up by 3 percent, which is one MPG on a 33 MPG car.

Most people won't be able to measure the difference, but it's there.

Duke

Well I have noticed about a 10% fuel mileage drop when they added alcohol to our premium gas here in the Carolinas. While I can not document it for now, the car seems a tad bit slower also.

FWIW.

[Richard T.]

Re: Ethanol

Alcohol in gasoline is nothing new, 5% in the early sixties was advertised by Chevron, it was called Methyl. You could even buy a bottle of Alcohol at the local auto parts store to stop gas line freeze although your tank would have to have some water in the gas for this to work. 5% of Ethanol/Alcohol would be safe for all auto's but the EPA says 10% or even 15% E85 gasoline. More Ethanol is better? To much Alcohol added to gasoline means more trips to the local gas station. How will this solve are energy problem? The reduced energy created by to much Alcohol in gasoline and the higher cost to create Ethanol/Alcohol is unproductive. I would not want to run E85 15% Ethanol in an old Corvette, in a tanker with the large fiberglass tank it would destroy the fuel tank over time. Being lucky enough to still buy pure gasoline in some parts of the U.S.A; for how long? I can only think that a can of top oil added to a full tank of 10% Ethanol Gasoline may help prevent some of the problems discussed for older cars or non cat models. Marvel Mystery Oil is advertised as a top oil that can be added to gasoline. Any other ideas or is this subject a non issue.

[Michael W.]

Re: Ethanol

even 15% E85 gasoline. ......... I would not want to run E85 15% Ethanol in an old Corvette, in a tanker with the large fiberglass tank it would destroy the fuel tank over time.

E85 is 85% ethanol NOT 15%! Your car would probably not make it past the end of the driveway on this fuel.

[Jim T.]

Re: Ethanol

Wonder how many states have stations with pure gas? I know of two, OK and TN. A person in Enid,OK told me stations adveritse with signs having pure gas. Know of only one station in Jackson, TN selling it.

[Clem Z.]

Re: Ethanol

here in southwest Pa westmoreland county we have had 10% ethanol in the gasoline for a while and the pump says it is there from april to october. i still think it is a way for the oil comanies to sell at least 10% more fuel as i have to fill my tank 10% sooner than before

[William C.]

Re: Ethanol

One thing to keep in mind is that the blend is not done at the gasoline refiner, but at the bulk distribution point that services your area. That is a variable that has on occasion created wide swings in the actual gas/alcohol mix in some areas. That can account for both the "unusual" variation in fuel economy as well as some of the horror stories regarding component degredation. Generally anything over 10% required complete fuel system upgrades of any rubber or other elastomeric parts in the system.

[Richard T.]

Re: Ethanol

Like Mr Ward said E85 is 85% Ethanol and 15% gasoline. My goof on the % but the point is and I agree; Mr. Ward says an old car will not run on E85. E10 is the 10% Ethanol recommended for all cars and trucks. The subject is what is safe to use if the old car guy cannot find pure gas or has to use E10. E85 is a no and should only be used for a brand new car designed to use such a fuel.

[Clem Z.]

Re: Ethanol

E-10 is even a problem in older cars with carbs as the rubber parts need to be changed to viton to prevent problems and the same for any rubber fuel lines if original equiptment

[Terry M.]

Re: Ethanol

One thing to keep in mind is that the blend is not done at the gasoline refiner, but at the bulk distribution point that services your area. That is a variable that has on occasion created wide swings in the actual gas/alcohol mix in some areas. That can account for both the "unusual" variation in fuel economy as well as some of the horror stories regarding component degredation. Generally anything over 10% required complete fuel system upgrades of any rubber or other elastomeric parts in the system.

Bill,

You make a good point about the potential inaccuracy of the alcohol blend process. The pumps in Illinois (and I suspect many other states) are labeled that the fuel may contain up to 10% alcohol. As you point out this can cause fluctuating fuel mileage.

As part of one of our classes at the college we used a Snap-on kit to measure the alcohol level in E85 fuel. We found very wide variations -- never more than 85%, but sometimes as low as 50% alcohol. I have to wonder about the accuracy of the accounting for the subsidies for that fuel, but no one would cheat the government would the? After all that is like cheating us because we are the government.

[Jim W.]

Re: Ethanol

Please don't take any of my remarks as inflammatory or derogatory, I asked some people who handle GM parts houses and when I asked about a regular 2008 Chevrolet Tahoe vs. a 2008 'Flex-fuel' vehicle. I was informed that the regular Tahoe's all metal lines, pumps parts, connections and fuel pressure regulator all regular rubber hoses and finally the little metal parts in the fuel pump & injectors needs to be made out of stainless steel, likewise the rubber and plastic parts need to be E85 compatible. So as he said everything basicly needs to be rust/corrosive proof, because that is where that use of E85 fuel is going to take you. I also checked with General Motors awhile back and they too illustrated the parts useage needs to be completely different.

Now once more, please understand that is how I was informed of how one would go about retro fitting a vehicle to accept E85 fuel. And again they mentioned the risk of leaking connections and small tin or metal parts and the corrosive effects of Ethanol, in any percentages. To be fair, I contacted ExxonMobil, Texaco, Sunoco and Chevron oil companies, all of whom said there is no current legislation to raise the current 10% ethanol to a higher percentages ?

[Jack H.]

Re: Ethanol

And in Brazil, you can buy up to 100% ethanol fuel. Anyone know why we limit our flex-fuel mixture to 85% max instead of offering pure ethanol at the pump?

[John H.]

Re: Ethanol

And in Brazil, you can buy up to 100% ethanol fuel. Anyone know why we limit our flex-fuel mixture to 85% max instead of offering pure ethanol at the pump?

Jack -

They don't have much snow or below-zero cold-start issues in Brazil .

[John H.]

Re: Ethanol

To be fair, I contacted ExxonMobil, Texaco, Sunoco and Chevron oil companies, all of whom said there is no current legislation to raise the current 10% ethanol to a higher percentages ?

That's not entirely true. Within the last 60 days, the EPA has become quite active in pushing to increase the ethanol blend limit from 10% to 15%, using the same old junk-science logic that got us to 10%. Expect to see a notice of proposed rulemaking in the Federal Register in the near future. The corn lobby and the enviroweenies will love it, and the politicians will seize on it as one more "green" thing to support that will get them re-elected.

[Richard M.]

Re: Ethanol

John, Naaaa, that's not why. It's so the oil companies still get a piece o' the action!

Rich
p.s. I'm gettin' the heck out of this one now and goin' to a car show......Hmmm, I hope my '59 doesn't crap out on me on the way!