Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

[Tracy C.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

Tracy
If you heard that hair spray works, or if you know of an example where hair spray was allowed to garner 50% of the paint points, those "judges" need 50 lashes with a wet noodle. If someone in authority told you what I bolded, they are dead wrong. (off my soap box)

I hope you are correct Terry, but the slide shown by Tom Ames in the paint class seemed open to interpretation. "Door Jams are to be anything but shiny by any means possible" or something similary non-descript. Doesn't take much of a leap to get what you want out of that.

Tom withheld his opinion on the slide's content, but I could tell he was under duress as it was shown.

tc

[Terry M.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

I hope you are correct Terry, but the slide shown by Tom Ames in the paint class seemed open to interpretation. "Door Jams are to be anything but shiny by any means possible" or something similary non-descript. Doesn't take much of a leap to get what you want out of that.

Tom withheld his opinion on the slide's content, but I could tell he was under duress as it was shown.

tc

I was not present for Tom's presentation, so I can't speak to what occurred there. And while I trust your caricaturization, I would have much preferred to get the information first hand. I am saddened that was not possible for me.

Attempts to dull jambs and drip rails with hair spray or by sanding simply do not look anything close to authentic. What can and does work is to spray those areas with a paint with the appropriate flattening agent added. This usually is done before the rest of the body is painted so that there is no sharp edge between the dull and shiny paint. I am not aware of any effective after-the-fact method of dulling jambs and drip rails, but if someone has found this magic elixir they might be reluctant to reveal their secret.

[Tracy C.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

Agree wholeheartedly Terry. Most painters these days have the doors off the car for paint and give the jams as much attention to surface prep as the rest of the car. Correctly done, the gloss level of paint in the jams should be "somewhat" diminished but the fiberglass strands should still be visible beneath the paint. Photos from a 63 with an exterior star.

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63doorjam1_zps58e7ae64.jpg

[Gene M.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

Agree wholeheartedly Terry. Most painters these days have the doors off the car for paint and give the jams as much attention to surface prep as the rest of the car. Correctly done, the gloss level of paint in the jams should be "somewhat" diminished but the fiberglass strands should still be visible beneath the paint. Photos from a 63 with an exterior star.

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Tracy,
I'm glad you posted the door jamb area photos. This clearly shows a very good example of what a jamb area should look like. Note the minimum "thickness" look to the paint. There was no secondary work performed. NO DULLING DOWN, NO SANDING, NO DULLING AGENTS APPLIED. This area is painted with door on the car and only where spray gun could reach. GM workers didn't get on hands and knees to apply paint. And the results should reflect a finish or absence of finish as such. Over restoration by applied to much paint and use of thick urethanes in this area DOES NOT LOOK AS ORIGINAL. No hair spray or and other secondary operations will convince me it does.

Understand base/clear is a transparent layer of finish over the color and looks as such. Definitely not original looking.

[Bill W.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

If you want to know what can cause a paint deduct (full or not) read the manual then look at as many Bowtie cars as possible . If your paint or jambs dont look like a bowtie you "could" get a deduct .

[Reba W.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

If you want to know what can cause a paint deduct (full or not) read the manual then look at as many Bowtie cars as possible . If your paint or jambs don't look like a Bowtie you "could" get a deduct .

I would make that should get a deduct.

[Mike F.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

I don't have a dog in this fight, my paint is old and ratty.

At a Regional I met an owner who took a full deduct based on the "shade" of blue he used. I don't know all of the particulars, just what was told to me. Right, wrong or indifferent, it does seem odd that someone who try's to do their best with a $10k-$15k paint job can lose the same amount of points as someone who used a paint roller to apply a zebra stripe paint job.

[Don H.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

that is mis-information Mike. Shade of color gets a 20% deduct on color. Metallic level gets 50% deduct on color. Non OEM color, or color does not match Trim plate or data sticker is full deduct for color. Application of paint as discussed in this thread is a different question.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

I don't have a dog in this fight, my paint is old and ratty.

At a Regional I met an owner who took a full deduct based on the "shade" of blue he used. I don't know all of the particulars, just what was told to me. Right, wrong or indifferent, it does seem odd that someone who try's to do their best with a $10k-$15k paint job can lose the same amount of points as someone who used a paint roller to apply a zebra stripe paint job.

Different venue, but we had a full deduction on paint color at BG this year on a car where the color wasn't even close to correct. So, shade or not, I can see how it would happen. If you've been judging long enough or around these cars long enough you will see paint colors that are waaaay off no matter how much someone spent on the paint job.

[Terry M.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

I had a conversation with one participant at the Texas Regional who had his car painted THREE times before he was satisfied with the results. At the 2013 Texas Regional he received NO deduction for his paint. In fact he proudly told me he received compliments for the quality of the paint job from that C3 exterior judge who usually wears shorts -- and I can assure you compliments from him are very rare.
Not every successful paint job has to or even should be done that many times, but he has a Laguna Gray car and that is an exceedingly difficult color to get to lay out right. In his case the color had been determined by test panels, but achieving the TFP results were the issues.

[Tracy C.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

Dallas is a member of our Chapter and what he told you is true. He lost half of his hair over the paint on that car but the final result is amazing.

tc

[Terry M.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

Dallas is a member of our Chapter and what he told you is true. He lost half of his hair over the paint on that car but the final result is amazing.

tc

Oh, I didn't doubt him. He was quite sincere and he had no reason to BS me -- the guy with the shorts, now there is maybe a reason to BS him, but that is another story for another time.

[Wayne M.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

..... Remember, paint these day is divided into TWO like items: (1) Color, and (2) Paint. In the 'good ole days', it was a SINGLE line item and ranked right up there with the engine block.

So, to actually take a FULL deduction on paint, you have to have the car painted TOTALLY the wrong color and then go execute an obvious BC/CC application on the paint.
...OR
You can have the 'right' color, but encounter that particular judge who objects to the size/composition of the metal flake in your paint and also execute a BC/CC application .......

Here's another recent case: NW Regional a couple of months ago. The owner (from the same city as me) has his '66 coupe NCRS judged for the first time; On color, lost 17 points out of 85 for "shade variation". He had the dumb misfortune to be one of two Trophy blue cars at the same event [what's the chance of that ?]

But in "Body Paint" he lost the full 85 (45 on originality and 40 on condition). Written comment: "not typical application - sheen", and was initialled as required by the team leader.

Nevertheless, he got a strong 2nd flight (halfway to a top) and was quite pleased.

[Mark D.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

Oh, I didn't doubt him. He was quite sincere and he had no reason to BS me -- the guy with the shorts, now there is maybe a reason to BS him, but that is another story for another time.

The guy in the shorts is a 'real deal' BS x-spurt with 'no issues.'

[Mike E.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

All this talk about BC/CC does any one know how to put this stuff down right still? I opened a can up to take a sniff. Wow better than a bouquet of roses. Did that bring back some memories.



Mike