Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

[Michael B.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

I got a full deduct at San Jose last year due to my "Factory Inspired" ZL-1 stripe not qualifying as factory inspired.

[Jean C.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

This thread clearly shows the the judges "opinion" is being factored into the score. I thought judging was supposed to be objective. Oh well.

Jim, I don't know where you get you information about judges' "opinion" not being a part of NCRS judging for if your read the disclaimer on the reverse side of any Flight Award you will see the following:

"NCRS does NOT certify or in any other way attest to the originality of any car receiving ANY NCRS judging award. NCRS judging awards represent the opinions (NB: emphasis is mine) of volunteer judges on a given date as they understand and interpret the standards....."

Owners of Corvettes entered in NCRS judging should be aware of the processes that judges use, particularly concerning judging exteriors. Owners can and should make their own decision as to how they want to present their car on the judging field just has Clark has done. And as Clark says, you can't have it both ways...NCRS judging and concourse judging. You gotta choose one or the other and live with the decision and hopefully have fun along the way.
Best regards,

[Patrick H.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

I got a full deduct at San Jose last year due to my "Factory Inspired" ZL-1 stripe not qualifying as factory inspired.

There's a very nice 53 out there that I've seen get a full deduction twice because it was signed by Zora in permanent marker on the driver's door.

[Gerard F.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

I got a full deduct at San Jose last year due to my "Factory Inspired" ZL-1 stripe not qualifying as factory inspired.

Hey Mike,

I have original paint on my door jambs on my 67. Looks crummy with gaps around the door latches. It isn't shiny or dull, more like a semi-flat.

The rest of the body was touched up with lacquer in 1972. It has since worn off and the original primer is now showing through.

But I got a full deduct on paint in Flagstaff a few year years ago. Only because I presented the car with white vinyl on the hardtop:



But I still made Top Flight. And I still like the white vinyl on the hardtop, but now judge it with the "correct" convertible top.

It is really all fun

The new trailing arms are just doing great, getting me all over. Thanks for your help on my incident.

[Tom M.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

Tom, would you happen to have any photos of the L-89 engine compartment, especially the RH side of the engine

Dick, I don't think i do, I will check

[Roy H.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

Hello, I am new to the Corvette restoration world. Coming from the other side (Mustang Restoration) for the past 20 years or so. I have started on a friends 66/350hp that I am pretty sure I have made the body lines and gaps too nice already. Its not painted yet but are hoping to have the car finished this fall. We are also hoping to win a Bloomington Gold with the car.
Thank You Roy
My friend started a web page for me check it out. www.roysrestoration.com

[Terry M.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

Thanks Clark for the writeup (and sorry about the full deduct).

So far, it sounds like if you have dull door jambs, you get 50% deduct. If you have shiney door jambs, you get 100% deduct.

That's what I was expecting to hear.

Keep 'em comin' guys. Only 37 days until I'm on the show field.

[Terry M.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

Hello, I am new to the Corvette restoration world. Coming from the other side (Mustang Restoration) for the past 20 years or so. I have started on a friends 66/350hp that I am pretty sure I have made the body lines and gaps too nice already. Its not painted yet but are hoping to have the car finished this fall. We are also hoping to win a Bloomington Gold with the car. I have heard that hair spray gives the desired effect of texture and dullness in the paint and will clean off. Anybody heard of this or tried it?
Thank You Roy
My friend started a web page for me check it out. www.roysrestoration.com

[Chuck W.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

That's a pretty tall order these days, but I HAVE seen it happen.

Remember, paint these day is divided into TWO like items: (1) Color, and (2) Paint. In the 'good ole days', it was a SINGLE line item and ranked right up there with the engine block.

So, to actually take a FULL deduction on paint, you have to have the car painted TOTALLY the wrong color and then go execute an obvious BC/CC application on the paint.

OR

You can have the 'right' color, but encounter that particular judge who objects to the size/composition of the metal flake in your paint and also execute a BC/CC application.

OR

Have that rather rare factory car whose trim tag reads 'PRIME' and not be able to live with your car restored without a color coat of paint on 'er.

Oops... http://ckautollc.phanfare.com/212224...ageID=65322125 Actualy the trim tag reads '<blank>' for paint.

[Ridge K.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

I salute Chris for starting this thread in his quest to learn more about judging issues he will face at the regional, and thus letting the rest of us learn more about this issue. A somewhat controversial issue in my judgment, as well as those who have offered stories here about owners being grossly disappointed in total paint deductions.
I have voiced my concerns before, so for the most part, ....will bite my tongue today. The only Corvette I presently own, is sitting in it's original St. Louis applied acrylic lacquer. And, .... on this 46,000 mile car, very, very few factory paint flaws are noted. This issue is commonly, and innocently exxagerated.
Secondly, I have been restoring rare steel bodied Chevrolet muscle cars since around 1970. Every single one of these I had to repaint, was shot in acrylic lacquer. One key thing here, those were repainted in the days that the available acrylic lacquer was very similar to that as used in the factory paint booths. That ability ended for me when the EPA destroyed lacquer as we knew it. I fully realize that many members of this club believe that today's version of lacquer is acceptable, and I respect their opinions. I simply happen to disagree 100%.
To me, painting in acrylic lacquer is not an option. IMHO, that would disregard the stated mission of this club to "preserve" these cars. After sll,...that is the mission isn't it?

I do believe those of us who would repaint a Corvette with exacting standards as to appling the correct factory color, should receive some level of deduction if an expert judge determines it is a BC/CC paint job.
If that same car is repainted to the exact original color (as humanly possible), I believe it is an injustice to penalize that owner with a full paint point deduction. For the reason I previously mentioned, countless experts have voiced their opposition and disapproval of today's version of lacquer.

My thanks to those who have openly discussed the issue.
I better shut-up now, as I claimed to be biting my tongue.
Ridge.

[Chris E.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

Understood, Terry. I should have said "it looks like people that dull down the appropriate areas get a 50% deduct at worst".

[Pat M.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

Clark's experience of losing far more points at a Regional than he did at a Chapter is a tough lesson to learn for owners. As I've said before, owners are fortunate if their point total remains the same for a given item as they go up the judging levels. And it sure doesn't get any easier at a National.

One resource that I find is way underutilized is to simply ask your judge what they expect to see, through email or in person at another meet. I repeatedly did this on the way to getting a Duntov for my 70, and tailored my car to the National judges' expectations, since I knew that was going to be the final, toughest test.

Judging is far easier as an "open book exam" rather than blindly hoping what you've done will meet with the judges' approval.

[Mike G.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

if the car is lacquer the paint is semigloss when applied. when the paint was buffed/ polished it made it shine. the door jambs were un-buffed so remained semigloss. thats what the judges are looking for...factory look.

[Ridge K.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

if the car is lacquer the paint is semigloss when applied. when the paint was buffed/ polished it made it shine. the door jambs were un-buffed so remained semigloss. thats what the judges are looking for...factory look.

Excellent pic, Mike.
Truly the picture that is worth a thousand words....

[Michael W.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

1) To me, painting in acrylic lacquer is not an option. IMHO, that would disregard the stated mission of this club to "preserve" these cars. After sll,...that is the mission isn't it?

2) I do believe those of us who would repaint a Corvette with exacting standards as to appling the correct factory color, should receive some level of deduction if an expert judge determines it is a BC/CC paint job.

1) Repainting is not preservation, it's restoration. Material used is irrelevant, it's only original once.

2) We don't vary the deductions according to the expertise level of the individual judge. There is a deduct if the judge (any judge) believes that the paint type appears not to be typical of factory production.