Roy Sinor Seen at Barrett-Jackson

[Walter G.]

Re: Roy Sinor Seen at Barrett-Jackson

I just returned from B-J and am pleased to see a response from Roy to try and clarify this issue and get the facts correct. Having said that, moving forward will it be standard procedure that B-J will be acquiring (paying for)proof of NCRS awards for all such represented vehicles or just selective ones where the car/owner may not be a familiar one in car culture circles?

[Jaime G.]

Re: Roy Sinor Seen at Barrett-Jackson

Roy, It was nice seeing you at BJ. Thank You for clarifying the purpose and direction of the certification and saving me a long post. JG

[Tom M.]

Re: Roy Sinor Seen at Barrett-Jackson

Thanks Roy, We missed you in Florida, I think we received more rain too !!!

[Michael F.]

Re: Roy Sinor Seen at Barrett-Jackson

I wouldn't take my car to BJ even if I could get million bucks, just another huckster like pt barnum riding the backs of others in my opinion, others do as they feel fit for them

[James W.]

Re: Roy Sinor Seen at Barrett-Jackson

Roy

I think its kind of sad that you feel obligated to point out that you received no payment for your services. You have an expertise and knowledge that are marketable and you should be able to provide that service at a fee that is acceptable for both you and the person receiving the service.

You were missed at the Florida Regional. Lots of nice cars and, despite the rain, lots of sunshine and it was warmer than last year.

Jim

[Mike G.]

Re: Roy Sinor Seen at Barrett-Jackson

Wow, 300 bucks to confirm that I have a Top Flight car. I guess that everything (Blue Ribbon, score sheets and certificate) given to me at the Awards banquet isn't worth the paper or ribbon it is printed on. We pay $35 a year, the various fees to get the car judged and when it comes to confirm later on that the car received an award it costs an additional $300. Seems a bit pricey and redundant once you receive an award.

this is a good thing. a few years back every corvette that came across the block claimed to be ncrs top flight. if a potential corvette buyer looks at 5 fakes and is turned off by what he sees, what if you were the 6th top flight car across and the buyer does not even look at your car? thats not fair to anyone. having a top flight award can add upwards of 20% to the price of the car. they are just asking you to put your money where your mouth is. if you cant prove it then you cant say it. i like it.

[Henry S.]

Re: Roy Sinor Seen at Barrett-Jackson

this is a good thing. a few years back every corvette that came across the block claimed to be ncrs top flight. if a potential corvette buyer looks at 5 fakes and is turned off by what he sees, what if you were the 6th top flight car across and the buyer does not even look at your car? thats not fair to anyone. having a top flight award can add upwards of 20% to the price of the car. they are just asking you to put your money where your mouth is. if you cant prove it then you cant say it. i like it.

But Mike can't you see Rick's point? He's already put his money where his mouth was by paying to have the car judged in the first place. If guys are forging the Flight awards/documents maybe NCRS needs to look at a way to correct that. From this thread a Top Flight Award isn't worth the paper or ribbon it's written on. Unless or course you pay NCRS another $300 to say so. Depending on how these certifications are handled who's to say it's just a matter of time before forged certificates start showing up. They say now it's only BJ that is requesting these certficates but how long do you think it will take for that to be the norm instead of the exception. You can almost see it coming down the pike now, fork out another $300 on top of what it cost now to get your car judged just so you can have a certification from the same organization that gave you the ribbon in the first place.

[Terry M.]

Re: Roy Sinor Seen at Barrett-Jackson

Not to throw do-do into the game (but I will ): A Top Flight (or any other award) isn't worth squat the day after the car is judged. One can and some folks do, remove all sorts of parts the next day and there is no way NCRS can or should police that.

The people who don't want to take the time to educate themselves about the cars they are buying deserve what the get. Do your own due diligence and you are less likely to be fooled.

[Pat M.]

Re: Roy Sinor Seen at Barrett-Jackson

Terry, your point is well taken, and the buyer always needs to beware.

But whether the awards are indicative of the car's current condition is a separate issue from whether owners who got the awards should get the confirmation service for free. I agree with those who think those owners should get the confirmation for free. JMHO

[Henry S.]

Re: Roy Sinor Seen at Barrett-Jackson

Not to throw do-do into the game (but I will ): A Top Flight (or any other award) isn't worth squat the day after the car is judged. One can and some folks do, remove all sorts of parts the next day and there is no way NCRS can or should police that.

The people who don't want to take the time to educate themselves about the cars they are buying deserve what the get. Do your own due diligence and you are less likely to be fooled.

TOTALLY AGREE Terry!! As the saying goes, A fool and his money are soon parted.

[Mike G.]

Re: Roy Sinor Seen at Barrett-Jackson

Dick,
I would like to make it perfectly clear that I have no fight/dispute with you but the company line reminds me of the Obama administration claiming that the recent Massachusetts Senator vote had nothing to do with their health care position. If I understand this correctly, if someone challenges me on my Top Flight award, I can confirm my award by paying $300 to NCRS and they will send paperwork to me verifying my award. Does this seem fair to a dues paying NCRS member who had to pay (most likely over $100) to have the car judged? Like I said in an earlier post, if that is the position of NCRS, why don't we assess the $300 at the judging event because the paper work provided at an Awards ceremony is worthless.

Also, why should NCRS charge a member $300 to confirm his award? I would think that awards have been entered into a database and it would only take a quick check, print it out and send it out via regular mail. A nominal fee for this service is all that should be required.

Can anyone confirm that a discount or waiver of fees did occur at Barrett-Jackson?

I have asked several questions and feel all of them should be answered.

Rick

if your car is not top flight it cant be confirmed so it is worth something. look at it like a title. when you buy a car, corvette or other, and are about to dish out 100k+ for it and the owner has a title in his hand. do you just give him the money and trust the title is good or do you research or confirm the title first? i do a title search before i spend the money. i check to see if it has a lein or if its stolen. does not mean the title is worth nothing. its just covering your a$$. i have never bought a top flight car but have sold several. if i did buy one and i could check to see if its a real car for $300.00 i would do so. i would also inspect the car and do my research.
BJ started this a couple of years back. if you say your car is ncrs top flight they will check. if it cant be confirmed then you cant say it is. you cant market your car with the ncrs name to boost the price of the car if they cant confirm it. i dont see how this is a bad thing no matter who pays for it.

[Terry M.]

Re: Roy Sinor Seen at Barrett-Jackson

But whether the awards are indicative of the car's current condition is a separate issue from whether owners who got the awards should get the confirmation service for free. I agree with those who think those owners should get the confirmation for free. JMHO

[Pat M.]

Re: Roy Sinor Seen at Barrett-Jackson

I agree, my only point was even if the confirmation proves nothing about the car, the owner should get it for free for whatever reason he may want it for, based on what he's already paid.

Now I TOTALLY agree with your last point, as to how the "Barrett-Jackson Effect" has put the Corvette hobby out of reach of most, which is really a shame. I often wish I was old enough to have been one of those "good ol' boys" with you all then, in what seems like a magical era for car guys.

[Bob D.]

Re: Roy Sinor Seen at Barrett-Jackson

Loren, chapter awards are not numbered. Regional and National are numbered and have the corporate seal on them.

With that said, most do not know that is part of the authenticity of awards

Dickie

I don't know if it is still done, but when I was Texas Chapter Judging Chairman, and John Woods before me, we numbered all Texas Chapter Judging certificates to help prevent forgeries.

[Sal C.]

Re: Roy Sinor Seen at Barrett-Jackson

This reminds me of my old drag racing days. If you think I'm cheating, put you're money up and I'll tear the motor down. If I'm selling a car that I have won an NCRS award with and you want it verified, then you put you're money up.
The bottom line however, as Terry correctly stated, is that once the car is back in the trailer all bets are off. Cars are "certified" as is, where is and nothing more. If you are going to make the purchase do you're homework.