What can NCRS do to support made in USA?

[Gene M.]

Re: What can NCRS do to support made in USA?

Mike -

That's correct - LuK is the largest supplier of OEM clutches in the world, but has no manufacturing facilities in North America.

At this time I was told by a Luk representative that he did not know of any OEM clutches made in the good old USA by anybody.

If one wants to look around one can still find clutch, pressure plate and t/o bearing assemblies made in USA as old dusty boxes still sit on some shelves. Yes it takes a lot of looking but worth it.

Yes I will pay a reasonable bit more for an American product.

At one time just about everything was made here. What happened? I'll tell you..... GREED. Every one wants to take in more and shell out less. It's that simple. A small profit is not good enough anymore.

[Stan E.]

Re: What can NCRS do to support made in USA?

Way to go Jamie!

[Rob M.]

Re: What can NCRS do to support made in USA?

I try to buy parts from whom is building the best reproduction part (both functional and in appearance (if visible)). If that is from China then I happy that the people over there also have a good X-Mas. Don't fight eachother with Nationalistic ideas, just build better products and offer better services for reasonable prices. Only that way you can try to support yourself and your families...

greetings and Merry X-Mas,
Rob.

[John F.]

Re: What can NCRS do to support made in USA?

I am not an expert by any means but here is my .02 worth. Not exactly sure when we started importing oil but it was not only due to gasoline/diesel use. A good majority of everything we buy has a tie to it though. Whether in the product itself, eletrical costs by however the electricity is generated to build it, the transportation costs (truck/rail),etc. There is enough blame to spread amongst us all. I am all for a fair profit to be made, but don't gouge me. A lot of things we take for granted are not rights or needs. They are wants. We seem to be willing to pay any price for them as well, regardless of where they are made. My grandfather emigrated here from Slovakia in 1907 thru Ellis Island with less than $10 in his pocket and spoke no English. He made a life for himself and 10 children by hard work and discipline. And that was instiled in me by my parents. We did not take anything for granted. I firmly believe we need a tax cut for all businesses, both large and small to stimulate the economy. The global economy is here to stay and China/India's demand for natural resources will affect us all in the near future if not already. I hope that you all instilled a hard work ethic in your children and they do the same for your grandchildren. Merry Christmas to all and drive those vettes like they should be driven no matter where the parts came from.
John

[Floyd B.]

Re: What can NCRS do to support made in USA?

Gary & Joe,
Many parts are made overseas and are embossed with "Made in USA" on them. I have in my hand a repro '69 rear view mirror and on the bottom it is embossed "Made in USA" and right over the USA part is a nice gold sticker that says "Tawain" that you peel off.
This gets it by customs, is to the letter of the law, and sold by all the repro houses.

As to Floyd and your Frontier, you are right, they do employ US workers. But they also get massive tax breaks for the land and plant. Major components like engines and trans are made overseas, and all the profits from the vehicle sale go back to Japan and "costs" are exagerated so they pay no US taxes. Big differences between the transplants and US corps. I worked with a Japanese automotive company and the way margins and cost were structured just token US taxes were paid.
And please lets not ever get into the "my Japanese vehicle went a billion miles with one oil change" stories. My Dodge RAM has 260K miles and literally nothing has failed on it but a water pump at 225K, so for every justification story there is one opposite that can do it one better.

This is no different than what GM has been doing for years. For example buying Kalos's built in Korea from Daewoo (owned by GM), pasting a bow-tie emblem on the grill and calling it an Aveo. Care to guess how many U.S. components went into that car?

It sounds to me that your are totally discounting that this plant represents a $2.5 billion investment in our economy - people have had to build and maintain the plant over the past 25+ years. The Smyrna plant employs almost 6,000 people directly and probably north of 20,000 indirectly. Do you honestly believe that U.S. automakers aren't getting tax abatements to build plants in U.S. communities in exchange for these same benefits?

How is GM doing any better by Americans when they build Buicks in China and invest $1 billion in the facilities? If you are Chinese, doesn't this seem fair?

I direct you back to my previous post on this thread. i.e. Bastiat's "Negative Railroad." How is Bastiat's argument flawed?

My primary point being that I would adamantly oppose any attempt to inject such politics into NCRS judging criteria on the grounds that it is impractical, counterproductive and inappropriate. Protectionist policies are based on a communist philosophy that reducing everyone to the same level of misery is the only "fair" system. In reality, the only fair markets are free markets - the free market system is what drives innovation and made this country great. Any benefits gained from protectionism are very short term and only serve to destroy your ability to compete in the long term. The irony of this whole thread is the fact that William C. Durant started Buick (modern day GM) from the ruins of the Durant-Dort Carriage Company. That would never happen today because we would have a government bailout of the horse-drawn carriage industry and legislation to prevent the horseless carriage industry from destroying all those needed jobs...

Before embracing protectionist policies I would urge anyone to first read two documents:
- The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx
- The Law by Frederic Bastiat
Then decide which system you would prefer. The scarier question is: Where is America now?

For the record: I also believe you have either misrepresented or misinterpreted my point concerning my 2000 Nissan Frontier. My point wasn't that the Japanese build better products - quite the contrary. I was pointing to an example of a product built by U.S. workers of superior quality. Which is the more "American" vehicle; the Chevy Aveo or the Nissan Frontier?

BTW, I say this all in a spirit of civil discourse. If you happen to be coming to Kissimmee for the regional meet this January, I would love to continue this debate over a good meal. I'll even buy.

[Floyd B.]

Re: What can NCRS do to support made in USA?

I try to buy parts from whom is building the best reproduction part (both functional and in appearance (if visible)). If that is from China then I happy that the people over there also have a good X-Mas. Don't fight eachother with Nationalistic ideas, just build better products and offer better services for reasonable prices. Only that way you can try to support yourself and your families...

greetings and Merry X-Mas,
Rob.

Spot on Rob!!! It took a Dutchman to remind us of the spirit that made (and will keep) America Great. Only goes to show that good principles work equally as well EVERYWHERE.

[Patrick H.]

Re: What can NCRS do to support made in USA?

My primary point being that I would adamantly oppose any attempt to inject such politics into NCRS judging criteria on the grounds that it is impractical, counterproductive and inappropriate.

However, I think it is entirely appropriate to deduct for a "Made in XXXXX" sticker that should not be on the part. We even assess deductions for GM stickers left on NOS bumpers as factory installed units do not have them. I know I've deducted for various non-factory stickers - including "Made in China."

Patrick

[Paul C.]

Re: What can NCRS do to support made in USA?

Whenever I order parts from any of the major corvette supplies I ask if the parts are made in the USA. They usually seem fairly honest and tell me if part A or B comes from China or somewhere else--if so I decline that part. So far all the parts have been either NOS, from corvette junkyards, fellow NCRS members, or made in america when from suppliers. Can I guarentee I don't have non USA parts in my 1971--NO--but at least I tried. I am a non-union person and an actually not pro-unions but that doesn't mean I won't support USA manufacturers. I spent two years in the US Army and fought for the freedom to buy my car parts anywhere I want--and I prefer USA. Their are other areas where buying USA is nearly impossible--like electronics--but that's for another day. In the end am I really making a difference--probably not BUT I know in my heart I am trying to make a difference and in the end sometimes that's all anyone can expect from you.

[Floyd B.]

Re: What can NCRS do to support made in USA?

However, I think it is entirely appropriate to deduct for a "Made in XXXXX" sticker that should not be on the part. We even assess deductions for GM stickers left on NOS bumpers as factory installed units do not have them. I know I've deducted for various non-factory stickers - including "Made in China."

Patrick

Absolutely.

[Stewart A.]

Re: What can NCRS do to support made in USA?

When your labour force is ready to work for $20.00 a week with no health and safety you will be able to buy your made in USA. Until then forget it, it ain't going to happen the entire Western World revolves around Money and greed so the cheapest manufacturing parts will always be the norm !! Get use to it for a long time. It's called capitalism and you guys supposedly invented and perfected it ? Stewy

[Jim W.]

Re: What can NCRS do to support made in USA?

Gene-----


I laud the intent but I think the result of having a "Made in USA" requirement would be the complete unavailability of certain restoration parts. For certain items, I'm not even sure that there is any US manufacturing capacity, anymore. It's a HUGE problem that's only going to get worse until this country comes to grips with the fact that the loss of the manufacturing base is leading this country to ruin.

Another point: as far as C4 and later Corvettes go, a LOT of the ORIGINAL parts are foreign made. So, if foreign made parts were not allowed, it would be absolutely impossible to restore or repair a car!

This is so true, I tried to get a 'Made in America' oil pressure sending unit and three were made in Mexico and one made in China. So I went back and got the one made in Mexico. If you want keep the car running, And that applies to any late model like C3,C4 or C5 your only going to pick from what's on the shelf and that goes with buying parts from the dealership or any parts store. It's very frustrating trying like hell to get a car up to the NCRS judging manual.

[Jim T.]

Re: What can NCRS do to support made in USA?

Gary & Joe,
Many parts are made overseas and are embossed with "Made in USA" on them. I have in my hand a repro '69 rear view mirror and on the bottom it is embossed "Made in USA" and right over the USA part is a nice gold sticker that says "Tawain" that you peel off.
This gets it by customs, is to the letter of the law, and sold by all the repro houses.

As to Floyd and your Frontier, you are right, they do employ US workers. But they also get massive tax breaks for the land and plant. Major components like engines and trans are made overseas, and all the profits from the vehicle sale go back to Japan and "costs" are exagerated so they pay no US taxes. Big differences between the transplants and US corps. I worked with a Japanese automotive company and the way margins and cost were structured just token US taxes were paid.
And please lets not ever get into the "my Japanese vehicle went a billion miles with one oil change" stories. My Dodge RAM has 260K miles and literally nothing has failed on it but a water pump at 225K, so for every justification story there is one opposite that can do it one better.

I don't know about where all the Toyota engine parts come from, however some are made in the USA by USA workers. One example is by a company Toyota bought years ago and has even expanded to where I live building a plant casting engine blocks for Toyota cars. I did not know anything about Bodine before they built a plant here. The plant here only supplies parts to a few states, other locations of Bodine supplies different states as well.
The engine plant here sure helps our economy here. If interested here is a link. http://bodinealuminum.com/

[Gene M.]

Re: What can NCRS do to support made in USA?

When your labour force is ready to work for $20.00 a week with no health and safety you will be able to buy your made in USA. Until then forget it, it ain't going to happen the entire Western World revolves around Money and greed so the cheapest manufacturing parts will always be the norm !! Get use to it for a long time. It's called capitalism and you guys supposedly invented and perfected it ? Stewy

Stewy,
Prices and wages were reasonable thru the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's before the greed. Why can't those principals and profit margins and payment schedules work today. It's time for Americans to rethink our own exhistence.

[Thomas O.]

Re: What can NCRS do to support made in USA?

If this whole question was a simple issue it probably would have been solved log ago. Factors we must consider are the standard of livining in china is seriously lower than ours. I know if I were a worker in china I wouldn't have two vettes and none of you would either if you were employed in china.

As for foreign cars being made in the U.S.A. This is a good investment for the Japanese as the profits return to the home country. I have a 2008 Rav which I learned is a total Japanese product . It is a fine intown vehicle but gas mileage is 20 in city and max of 24 0n interstate. My Grand Prix does much much better under same conditions. And look out for those Japanese made tires 30,000 miles and you need $450.00 to $695.00 bucks to replace those 17 inchers.

As I stated we are not dealing with simple issue with a simple answer. My choice of vehicles will consider the american economy first which would be one step toward solving our present ecomnom,ical problems.

[Henry S.]

Re: What can NCRS do to support made in USA?

I think we would probably all agree each of us would do our best to support our own countries manufacturers and workers, whether it's the U.S.A., Canada or Australia (hey Stewy) whenever possible. Regulations, salaries and (GREED) have been blamed for our jobs being shipped out. Do we have too much regulation? Probably so, but we've all seen that picture of a gazillion power lines running in every direction on a busy China street corner. I'm sure none of us would work in those conditions. Also Roy made a comment early on in this thread about the $30 an hour sweeper. Is that REALLY the standard, no I would think that would be the exception just as saying CEO's make $30 million a year. It does bring up an interesting point however. What would each of us work for? I would assume a good many of us are older or retired or reaching retirement age. Many of us probably worked in those factories that are now shut down. Where does the group of young workers today that are NOT college bound go? I know, there is TONS of so called help out there to help, but still many fall through the cracks. I worked for 30 years in a Firestone plant, started in 1972. At that time I had a pick of about 4-5 companies (Staleys, Cat, Borg Warner, Mueller, railroad) that were all hiring. It's not like that today. A buddy of mine retired from Cat after 35 years and he was making about $28 an hour when he retired. His son hired on at the same Cat plant 2 years later doing the same job and his pay will top out at $16 an hour. Now instead of factories opening they have a Starbucks or McDonalds open and they have 1000 people standing in line wanting a job. Back to "What would you work for?" If you were raising a family TODAY (with the same knowledge you had then not the if I knew then what I know now) what would you be doing??? AND what would be the lowest pay you would accept?? Then to our hobby, could you support your Corvette habit on those wages???