Paint - base and clear coat

[Kenneth H.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

I'm a little embarrassed to say this, but I could never picture what orange peel actually looked like. Thanks, Jack, for the illustration.

[Chris E.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

I'm a little embarrassed to say this, but I could never picture what orange peel actually looked like. Thanks, Jack, for the illustration.

Go to any new car, ANY new car on a dealer lot, and look at the quality of the reflected image. You'll see what we're talking about. Sharp lines that should be perfectly reflected are broken up.

[Jack H.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

Picture was provided as an example of orange peel and NOT as a template for how to paint your car, or a sample of what 'typical' factory production was for all model years. I did that because your average painter with concourse d'elegance experience simply can NOT fathom the subtle difference that surfaces in a factory concours judging event.

Bottom line, nobody holds a gun to the owner's head dictating how much orange peel has to be present on his/her restored car. BUT, if the paint job is deemed to be atypical of then current factory production norms, he/she should expect to lose judging points for over-restoration.

No big deal. These 'Mona Lisa' cars can still achieve Top Flight as well as MoE (Mark of Excellence) status. But, there should be no owner 'whining' when the over-restoration deduction results...

[Jack H.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

Yes, that's EXCELLENT advice! Go to a car dealership today and observe the paint... Understand it's probably a LOT better than the quality of workmanship from the 50's--70's. But, you'll get the big picture.

The advice to observe your reflection in the exterior panel(s), is DEAD NUTS on! You should see a 'fuzzy' reflection, at best, and NOT an image that's so clear you can comb your hair with it...

Now, you're onto the rule of thumb traits that senior exterior judges use and it's just not that hard or loaded with as much subjectivity as some attribute to the process. The standard is 'typical' factory quality; no better, no worse.

But, there's a Catch-22 issue here that some judges miss entirely. 'Typical' does NOT mean 'average'... Typical means the normal span of differences that the process created.

Most systems are characterized by a Gaussian (bell-shaped) distribution curve. You capture 95% of the deviation of the parent population by going 2.5 standard deviations from center (mean or average) in both directions. That's a reasonably well understood statistical norm for evaluating the 'spread' of a given process.

As John Hinckley has advised us, MANY of these cars experienced paint touch-up either at the factory or by the delivering dealer. So, I'd consider some degree of paint mis-match, here/there, to be an integral part of 'typical'...

[Chris E.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

So my next question is this.

Given that NCRS judges to the standard of typical factory production and then average dealer prep, what if the paint finish on a judged car is buffed? It's not too big of a leap of the imagination to think that new car dealers in the 50s & 60s were buffing cars before delivery.

Ignore the "distinctiveness of image" issue / orange peel for now.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

So my next question is this.

Given that NCRS judges to the standard of typical factory production and then average dealer prep, what if the paint finish on a judged car is buffed? It's not too big of a leap of the imagination to think that new car dealers in the 50s & 60s were buffing cars before delivery.

Ignore the "distinctiveness of image" issue / orange peel for now.

The factory originally buffed the top half of the car, so it's expected. The question is, did you buff your modern paint so much that you can now read the Wall Street Journal (i.e. small type) in the reflection? Or did you leave some orange peel as the factory did?

[Chris E.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

There appears to be some orange peel in it to my eye.

We'll see how it gets judged, I guess.

I'm expecting a full deduction, and anything better than that will be a delight.

[Ridge K.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

There appears to be some orange peel in it to my eye.

We'll see how it gets judged, I guess.

I'm expecting a full deduction, and anything better than that will be a delight.

[Chris E.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

Thanks Ridge, for the vote of confidence. I too hope the car doesn't get a full deduct....

I'm aiming for Duntov with this car. With all of the original parts the car still has, I think I have a better than fighting chance at it. Basically, it all boils down to how the car gets judged on paint. (assuming ops is flawless)

If I get a full deduct on paint, I'm going to really have to do some work to pickup a few points here and a few points there, ASSUMING that the judges catch every tiny little detail that I know about the car that isn't exactly perfect. We'll see.

I'll definitely get a chapter top flight, but I need more than just that. I'm weird that way.

[Jean C.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

Chris, we invite you to bring your car to the Lone Star Regional in Killeen, TX to be held 15-17 October 2009.
Best regards,

[Chris E.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

Chris, we invite you to bring your car to the Lone Star Regional in Killeen, TX to be held 15-17 October 2009.
Best regards,

Charlie, I'd love to come, but I don't have enough vacation time from work.