Paint - base and clear coat

[Jack H.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

I don't know what you mean by 'show shinny'... Certainly, cars are allowed to be presented on the judging field with a fresh wax job on them!

Keys here to factory consistency include: (1) some degree of factory typical orange peel--NOT a concours d'elegance mirror/flat finish, and (2) evidence of the factory typical paint application process with 'non-cosmetic' surfaces (door jam area, areas below the 'belt line') NOT exhibiting heavy wet/dry sanding + final buff out.

I believe this was provided in a prior thread... But, the attached picture depicts the factory original surface of a '78 pace car sitting on the dealer's show room floor. You CAN see the 'orange peel' present which most painters experienced in executing concours d'elegance paint jobs abbohr and wouldn't consider letting out the door on their work product...

[Jim D.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

That Pace car looks like it was painted with a roller. Original or not, I would be ashamed to have that as a finished product even on a daily driver.

[Ridge K.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

[quote=Chris Enstrom (46481);432627]It's my understanding that show shiny the paint is does NOT factor in at the first level of the flowchart. Is that true?

Chris, Jack H. provided an excellent photo to illustrate the paint flaws that left that historic St. Louis assembly plant. I would say however, IMHO, 1978 quite possibly was the peak of orange-peel type exterior paint flaws, and not necessarily quite as representative of 11 years earlier in 1967.


Fortunately, all years of Corvettes were not that bad, on average. Were any "show quality?"...........probably not.
Good luck to you with your first judging. Ridge

[Chris E.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

I don't know what you mean by 'show shinny'... Certainly, cars are allowed to be presented on the judging field with a fresh wax job on them!

Keys here to factory consistency include: (1) some degree of factory typical orange peel--NOT a concours d'elegance mirror/flat finish, and (2) evidence of the factory typical paint application process with 'non-cosmetic' surfaces (door jam area, areas below the 'belt line') NOT exhibiting heavy wet/dry sanding + final buff out.

I believe this was provided in a prior thread... But, the attached picture depicts the factory original surface of a '78 pace car sitting on the dealer's show room floor. You CAN see the 'orange peel' present which most painters experienced in executing concours d'elegance paint jobs abbohr and wouldn't consider letting out the door on their work product...

Jack, I had a typo in my question. I meant to ask "how does shiny factor in?"

And I think my answer is "it shouldn't".

Especially in the photo just posted of the Pace Car, it is really shiny, but has a great deal of orange peel.

[John H.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

Chris -

On the left side of the chart (with the car closed up) judges will generally evaluate gloss and any non-typical appearance (like buildup on panel edges that's typical of clearcoat and not typical of factory production); if not typical, the appropriate deduction is taken. Then with the car opened up, the right side of the chart comes into play, evaluating door and body opening jambs, hood and deck gutters, deck underside, etc. to determine if those areas appear typical of factory production; if not, the appropriate deduction is taken.

[Chris E.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

My car some some orange peel in it, even though it isn't lacquer. I'm hoping that, alongside the other steps I'm taking to make the finish appear more like factory, will land me on the "YES" side of the first question and give me either a 20% or 0% deduct.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

My car some some orange peel in it, even though it isn't lacquer. I'm hoping that, alongside the other steps I'm taking to make the finish appear more like factory, will land me on the "YES" side of the first question and give me either a 20% or 0% deduct.

One thing to note,

I've seen plenty of cars that have "less glossy" door jambs, hood troughs, etc but someone forgets that BC/CC builds up nice "lips" on the edges of panels where lacquer did not. So, the car loses all its paint points on the first step because it's relatively obvious that it's BC/CC.

Try it sometime at a meet and I think you'll see the same thing.

Patrick

[Chris E.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

Understood, Patrick. I told my painter to get rid of those clear coat lips, and for the most part he did. I'll have to bring the car back when it is finished to the painter since there are a few flaws I want fixed.

[Ridge K.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

Judging is, as some have said, a game. The purpose is for entertainment and education. Know the rules and play by them -- you and your car will have a lot more fun that way. The person who brings a football to a baseball game usually doesn't have much fun.

One of my favorite fellow members for giving quality advice, made the above comment. He'll recognize it when he sees it.
The more I think about it, the more correct I think this comment is. It just seemed to fit here.
Ridge.

[Pat M.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

Not only is judging a game, I would add that owners should EXPECT to receive unexpected deductions, and in some cases deductions an owner should not receive. The real game is to get the award you're after in spite of this.

[Chris E.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

Well, with regard to what "ball" I'm bringing to the game, I'm bringing a very original, fully restored, 67 convertible with the driveline it was born with, and paperwork to prove it.

Did I mention it's red?

Life is good. Save the wave.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

very original, fully restored

Many would say that this statement is an oxymoron - unless you've been reading eBay ads.

[Michael W.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

Many would say that this statement is an oxymoron - unless you've been reading eBay ads.

Beat me to it Pat. As we both like to say, it's only original once.

[Chris E.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

Many would say that this statement is an oxymoron - unless you've been reading eBay ads.

Ok, well call it whatever you want to call it, but here's what it has.

Original motor, trans (with original gears even), rear end housing (with new 3:36 ring & pinion), all body panels with original bonding seams intact (except pass door), untorn dash pads, glove box door with original sticker, gauges, seats and vinyl covers, headlight motors, wheels, trim rings and center caps, rear view mirror, door panels & handles and pulls, convertible top frame, main frame (still with VIN stamped in it), carb, intake, steering column & box, surge tank, 3 out of 4 side glass pieces, lots of original hardware reconditioned, spare tire tub with date stamp, driveshaft with original balancing weights, tank sticker, protectoplate, AND the ultra-rare big-block delete option L79.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Paint - base and clear coat

Ok, well call it whatever you want to call it, but here's what it has.

My point is that you have a restored car with all original parts, but it's not an original car. Original cars maintain their original finishes, configurations, parts, etc. Sometimes they get Bowtie Awards, sometimes they get Flight Awards, sometimes they're rough enough to get neither. Generally they are not "messed with" much at all. You can restore a car and use all its original parts as you have done, but you can't have a car that's both restored and original. Without pushing it too far, it's like pregnancy - you can't be "sort of" pregnant either.

Unless you're on eBay.
Then all rules are off.

Patrick