Correct 67 BB intake manifold gaskets and seals. Who sells them?

[Brian E.]

I'll try to answer my own question and those of you with judging experience please help me through this if my math is incorrect...
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There are 25 originality points assigned to the 3 items on this line: intake manifold (1), bolts (2), gaskets and seals(3). 25 originality points divided by 3 separate items is 8.333 points for the intake manifold, 8.333 points for the bolts, and 8.333 points for the gaskets and seals. So now we're down to 8.333 points since we are only talking about the seals and gaskets. For my intake manifold there are a total of 4 gaskets/seals - left and right side wall gaskets as well as the front and rear rubber end seals. 8.333 points divided by 4 total gaskets/seals is 2 points per gasket/seal. And since we're only talking about the front and rear rubber end seals we're only dealing with a total of 4 originality points for BOTH the 2 rubber end seals.
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Since the 2 end seals are made from rubber orange paint may or may not adhere to the end seals. But let's just say (for the purposes of this conversation) that orange paint will NOT adhere to the silicone and will be more easily seen as non-typical.
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Here's where I don't know (because I don't know how to assign point deductions) if there is a standard deduction or if we use the CDCIF matrix (Configuration, Date, Completeness, Installation, Finish) where each non-typical item is judged is 20% of total originality points.
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If we're using CDCIF, then which of the 5 applies to the non-typical gasket/seal? Configuration deduct (because the rounded GM tab is not visible)? Installation deduct (because the rounded GM tab is not visible)? There's no applicable date, and I'm presuming the non-typical gasket/seal would be complete. That leaves Finish, and if the silicone rejects orange paint then I could see how the car would receive a deduct for the Finish part of the CDCIF. So, now let's add up all the CDCIF point deducts... 60% CDCIF deduct for configuration + installation + finish. 60% of 4 originality points for BOTH the 2 rubber end seals is 2.4 points.
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Did I do the math correctly to come up with approximately 2.4 points lost due to using Permatex Ultra Black silicone gasket instead of rubber end seals?

[Joseph S.]

Brian, Put the intake gaskets on DRY. Then fit the intake and snug it up without any torque applied. You will get your answer easily. Then when you take the intake back off, take a photo so everyone can see the orientation of your nice GM tabbed gaskets.

Joe

[Joseph S.]

I'll try to answer my own question and those of you with judging experience please help me through this if my math is incorrect...
.
There are 25 originality points assigned to the 3 items on this line: intake manifold (1), bolts (2), gaskets and seals(3). 25 originality points divided by 3 separate items is 8.333 points for the intake manifold, 8.333 points for the bolts, and 8.333 points for the gaskets and seals. So now we're down to 8.333 points since we are only talking about the seals and gaskets. For my intake manifold there are a total of 4 gaskets/seals - left and right side wall gaskets as well as the front and rear rubber end seals. 8.333 points divided by 4 total gaskets/seals is 2 points per gasket/seal. And since we're only talking about the front and rear rubber end seals we're only dealing with a total of 4 originality points for BOTH the 2 rubber end seals.
.
Since the 2 end seals are made from rubber orange paint may or may not adhere to the end seals. But let's just say (for the purposes of this conversation) that orange paint will NOT adhere to the silicone and will be more easily seen as non-typical.
.
Here's where I don't know (because I don't know how to assign point deductions) if there is a standard deduction or if we use the CDCIF matrix (Configuration, Date, Completeness, Installation, Finish) where each non-typical item is judged is 20% of total originality points.
.
If we're using CDCIF, then which of the 5 applies to the non-typical gasket/seal? Configuration deduct (because the rounded GM tab is not visible)? Installation deduct (because the rounded GM tab is not visible)? There's no applicable date, and I'm presuming the non-typical gasket/seal would be complete. That leaves Finish, and if the silicone rejects orange paint then I could see how the car would receive a deduct for the Finish part of the CDCIF. So, now let's add up all the CDCIF point deducts... 60% CDCIF deduct for configuration + installation + finish. 60% of 4 originality points for BOTH the 2 rubber end seals is 2.4 points.
.
Did I do the math correctly to come up with approximately 2.4 points lost due to using Permatex Ultra Black silicone gasket instead of rubber end seals?

Brian, Great math, however, the judges wouldn't evenly apply the 25 points. You might see 20 for the intake and the rest divided up. You might see 15 for the intake and the rest divided up. Anyway you slice it, there is not enough weight given to the end seals for a 1 point deduction. That is why I said,...."Shame on those judges for taking a point"! Just a note to you is the proper score. No points deducted.

I guess we all need to pay more attention at the CDCIF school.

Enjoy the weekend! Joe

[Brian E.]

Understood. Thanks.

[Brian E.]

Haha, all this time I didn't realize that the National Judging Chairman was replying to my thread. How cool is that?

[Richard M.]

Joe, for reference...

Here's a link to your thread with the photos......Rich

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/forum/te...s-gm-logo-tabs

[Joe L.]

DSCN4439.jpg DSCN4440.jpg DSCN4441.jpg DSCN4442.jpg DSCN4443.jpg DSCN4444.jpg DSCN4445.jpg DSCN4446.jpg


DSCN4439.jpg


The "rest of the story" on big block intake manifold gaskets. First of all, as been stated here by others, the "GM" embossment on the end seals is a moot point; that feature cannot be seen when the manifold is installed on the engine. In general, cars are displayed with the manifold installed on the engine so until judging standards require the removal of the manifold or some sort of "x-ray" inspection to check for the embossments, it won't make a bit of difference.

However, there are features of the side gaskets which can be seen and there are correct and incorrect configurations out there even with NOS GM gaskets. I'm going to cover only the large oval port gaskets (used for L-36, L-68, and LS-5) but similar configuration differences also apply to the corollary rectangular port gaskets.

The original gasket set applicable to 1966-68 big blocks was GM #3876197. This set contains the gaskets used in PRODUCTION and available in SERVICE under the aforementioned part number. GM #3871697 was discontinued from SERVICE in May, 1969 and replaced by GM #3955526. The gaskets in this set were used in PRODUCTION for 1969-1972 and available in SERVICE under the aforementioned part number. The 3955526 gasket set is virtually identical to the 3871697 and no difference could be discerned especially when installed on the engine.

In November, 1974 the 3955526 gasket set was discontinued from SERVICE and replaced by the GM #6259377. The gaskets in this set were never used in PRODUCTION inasmuch as the last use of the large oval port heads in a Chevrolet passenger car occurred for the 1972 model year. However, while the 6259377 gasket set will perfectly SERVICE 1966-72 large oval port big blocks, there is a configuration difference which can be discerned when installed on the engine. This difference is easily seen in the photos I posted above.

The 6259377 gasket set was discontinued in November, 1984 and replaced by the GM #14019899. The latter was discontinued in February, 1991 and replaced by GM #10174981 which was finally discontinued without supercession about 10 years ago. The 14019899 and 10174981 contain side gaskets virtually identical to the 6259377.

[Joseph S.]

As always, Great job Joe Lucia!