Are C4 Corvettes able to earn Crossed Flag Stars

[Josh B.]

I’m still new to the NCRS world and have a goofy question to some people. Are C4 cars able to earn Crossed Flag Stars? Like 53-82 cars can earn 1, 2, and 3 star awards. Are C4-C6 cars able to do the same or is it just your 4 Star Crossed Flags Award and then the 5th Star?

[Michael J.]

From the NCRS website: https://www.ncrs.org/services/judging-awards.php

NCRS - CHEVROLET CROSSED FLAGS Award


This award was created by the National Corvette Restorers Society in 2006. The NCRS Chevrolet Crossed Flags Award is intended to recognize exceptional original, un-restored cars and encourage the owners to retain and display the car in its present condition. The NCRS Chevrolet Crossed Flags award is earned only at a National Convention by un-restored cars successfully judged and voted to be historically and educationally significant in four areas (Interior, Exterior, Mechanical and Chassis). This award is available to 1984 and newer Corvettes currently judged by NCRS that have received an NCRS McLellan Mark of Excellence award. Regardless of change in ownership or judging result the car may never be presented for judging again. The judged section requires a 90% pass with the following standard “Does the item, part, fabric, plating or coating appear to actually be that which was specifically installed or applied on this car at the time of manufacture”. If this is successfully passed the vote with the following standard “Does the area judged display significant educational and historical value which should be preserved in its present condition” is taken. Passing both sections in all four areas earns the NCRS - Chevrolet Crossed Flags award. Only 69 Corvettes have received this award.

Thus it is quite different than the Bowtie and Stars awards.

[Patrick H.]

From the NCRS website: https://www.ncrs.org/services/judging-awards.php
Thus it is quite different than the Bowtie and Stars awards.

I would not say it's quite different, but rather very similar with regard to the award itself. It's the Bowtie (so to speak) for 84-and-later cars.

The one big difference is that the car has first to achieve the McLellan Award before it goes on to Crossed Flags.
In comparison, you don't even have to get a Top Flight to move on for Bowtie consideration. If the Bowtie cars had to get a Duntov (or McLellan if appropriate) first, then they would be the same. There are cars that have achieved both Bowtie and Duntov, but they typically try for the Bowtie first.

[Harry S.]

I do believe C6's that have attained a Mark of Excellence for Hill and Wallace can also go for Crossed Flag.

My 2006 will be Cross Flag judged at the 2026 National.

[Michael J.]

I would not say it's quite different, but rather very similar with regard to the award itself. It's the Bowtie (so to speak) for 84-and-later cars.

The one big difference is that the car has first to achieve the McLellan Award before it goes on to Crossed Flags.
In comparison, you don't even have to get a Top Flight to move on for Bowtie consideration. If the Bowtie cars had to get a Duntov (or McLellan if appropriate) first, then they would be the same. There are cars that have achieved both Bowtie and Duntov, but they typically try for the Bowtie first.

I think having to get a Restoration Mark of Excellence Award before you can even try for the Preservation Mark of Excellence Award is quite different. Much more expense, work, travel, towing, judging etc. Also, in the Star program, you can earn 1, 2, or 3 stars on the way to 4 Star Bowtie. With Crossed Flags, it is all 4 areas or nothing, quite different, IMO.

[Patrick H.]

Also, in the Star program, you can earn 1, 2, or 3 stars on the way to 4 Star Bowtie.

No, you don't.

If you don't get all 4 stars at the National when judged (i.e. Bowtie), then you get less.
You have to earn all 4 for a Bowtie, and less = Star award.
One and done.

You can get a 5th Star by bringing your car to the required post-Bowtie events. That's the only one you can earn after the judging.

[Michael J.]

No, you don't.

If you don't get all 4 stars at the National when judged (i.e. Bowtie), then you get less.
You have to earn all 4 for a Bowtie, and less = Star award.
One and done.

You can get a 5th Star by bringing your car to the required post-Bowtie events. That's the only one you can earn after the judging.

That is what I said, at the National when you are being judged for the 4 Star Bowtie, you can win a 1, 2, or 3 Star Award. Crossed Flags does not allow for anything but all 4 or nothing. Quite different IMO.

[Patrick H.]

That is what I said, at the National when you are being judged for the 4 Star Bowtie, you can win a 1, 2, or 3 Star Award. Crossed Flags does not allow for anything but all 4 or nothing. Quite different IMO.

No, you said they could earn them "on the way" to a Bowtie.
Nothing is earned on the way.

[Josh B.]

I feel like it would be a good step forward for the 84-newer cars if they could obtain Crossed Flag Stars like the Bowtie program. For example my 129,000 plus mile 1990 will probably never obtain a 97% flight score to obtain a McLellan award thus never getting a Crossed Flags Award for all 4 areas scoring 90% or better. But I do think my 1990 could obtain a one star or maybe even a two star via my interior and exterior areas.

[Michael J.]

I feel like it would be a good step forward for the 84-newer cars if they could obtain Crossed Flag Stars like the Bowtie program. For example my 129,000 plus mile 1990 will probably never obtain a 97% flight score to obtain a McLellan award thus never getting a Crossed Flags Award for all 4 areas scoring 90% or better. But I do think my 1990 could obtain a one star or maybe even a two star via my interior and exterior areas.

I agree, that would be a big improvement in the Crossed Flags program and would attract many more cars of that vintage to judging. Recognizing excellence in preservation should not be an all or nothing proposition. And requiring another Mark of Excellence award with an extremely high level of perfection before being allowed to be judged at all is also a drawback to attracting more cars showing preservation excellence, IMO.

[Josh B.]

I agree, that would be a big improvement in the Crossed Flags program and would attract many more cars of that vintage to judging. Recognizing excellence in preservation should not be an all or nothing proposition. And requiring another Mark of Excellence award with an extremely high level of perfection before being allowed to be judged at all is also a drawback to attracting more cars showing preservation excellence, IMO.

I can agree with that. Maybe this is something that will gain traction over the coming years with Joe as the judging chairman. There are plenty of low miles C4 cars, but a lot more that have higher mileage that could maybe obtain a star award, but not a Crossed Flags (like my 90). I can agree trying to get a 97% twice and pass a PV can get expensive between buying parts, hotels, travel, and registering for events. I think this is something that could be beneficial in the long run for getting new members to show their cars off at these events.

[Michael J.]

Yes, this award was established almost 20 years ago, and things change with these vintage cars. They were close to new back then, and now I think a more traditional path of having a route to preservation excellence which is separate from restoration excellence makes more sense, like the Duntov/Bowtie excellence paths.

[Josh B.]

Yes, this award was established almost 20 years ago, and things change with these vintage cars. They were close to new back then, and now I think a more traditional path of having a route to preservation excellence which is separate from restoration excellence makes more sense, like the Duntov/Bowtie excellence paths.

The oldest C4 is now 41 years old so I do agree with you that there needs to be some consideration of having a Star program that is separate from the current route of Crossed Flags. So many more cars could be entered into judging events this way without having to go the long route of obtaining the McLellan award for their Crossed Flags.

Unfortunately most of us younger members of the NCRS (I’m 28) can’t really afford to spend $150 plus to register for an event and having to do that multiple times for the current Crossed Flags Route.

[Mike D.]

I think having to get a Restoration Mark of Excellence Award before you can even try for the Preservation Mark of Excellence Award is quite different. Much more expense, work, travel, towing, judging etc. Also, in the Star program, you can earn 1, 2, or 3 stars on the way to 4 Star Bowtie. With Crossed Flags, it is all 4 areas or nothing, quite different, IMO.

I agree with Mike. Having a bowtie type award for a C4/C5 makes sense for members like Josh without the requirement of a MOE award first.