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This thread has me thinking about what impact Corvette has had on the car world and car enthusiasts in general.
I think it is fantastic that there is consideration being given to opening up the organization to all Corvette generations!
I think a judging program available for all generations deserves a name representative of the impact Corvette has had.
How about a programe name something like America's Sports Car Judging (or American Sports Car Judging)?
Then there can be specific descriptive division names like Custom, Modified, Stock, Corvette Your Way, ect.Comment
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They probably have no interest in having their car judged. Having a car judged can take considerable time and $$, not only in getting the car prepared but also in travel / lodging expenses as well. Many don't own a trailer to transport their cars to long distance events as well.
Those owners may still be very much involved in the club in other ways like the technical aspects, original cars or just being around like minded individuals.
I did a nut and bolt restoration on my 58 and took it through judging. I have 5 other cars and have no interest in having them judged as it would take a certain level of effort and $$ to bring them up to Top Flight standards which is not what I want to do with those cars.
For instance, I have a 2007 Z06 with very low mileage. Bought the judging manual, went through it, check, check, check....... Kind of boring to me, nothing to "restore". Whereas my older cars when comparing them to the judging manual I find things I didn't know as well as things that need to be addressed to make them more like they were when they left the factory, which is more up my alley.
Again, my vote for the re-naming of Concours is simply "Modifed". Could have sub categories like Factory Modified, Dealer Modified, or owner Modifed ("day two").
Tom
1958, 283/245, White/red - Top Flight, October 2016
1960, Black/black, 283/230 4sp
1966, Black/Red, 327/350 4sp w/AC
1967, 427/390, 4sp, Goodwood Green, Coupe
1971 LS5, 4sp, coupe, Bridgehampton Blue
2007 Z06, Lemans Blue
Newsletter Editor, Delaware Valley ChapterComment
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THomas,
"For instance, I have a 2007 Z06 with very low mileage. Bought the judging manual, went through it, check, check, check....... Kind of boring to me, nothing to "restore". "
The 2005 - 2007 manual was written purely as a Judging Manual not a Restoration Manual. What I found helpful with the 2005 - 2007 manual was the detail on how the things actually worked. For example, the radio has more function and features that most people do not use or know about. But, they are checked during PV. That level of detail helped my 2006 pass PV and obtain a David Hill Mark of Excellence award.
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No doubt, I fully understand that, and there is no "fix" for that as it is your personal choice. But judging is the major component of this society, the vast majority of the meets revolves around that. Maybe that is a mistake if the desire is to grow membership?
Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New MexicoComment
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Question, How many that patronize this site have entered a car for Concours Judging?Comment
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Mark, I have the 53 - 64 manuals as I judge those classes. There are many explanations of what is correct, what is not correct, pictures of real parts and pictures of restoration parts, etc. This is very helpful in reversing what creative owners have changed over the decades.
The 2005 - 2007 manual is simply, this is what it is and how to judge it.
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Michael, I do believe that Judging is a major component of our organization. I also think sharing our passion and knowledge is also a big component. It's the passion for Corvettes that is driving me to include ALL Corvettes into our organization.
One thing we all have to remember, whatever endeavor people join into; Car Clubs, Recreational sports, Collecting, Book clubs, there are always a vast array of involvement. There are the fanatics, the casuals and everything in between. It always seems that whatever I do, I end up in the fanatics group. All my years playing sports, I always had to win. You all know I never miss a Celtic's game! When I coached my kids games I spent hours thinking up plays and player combinations that would make the kids have more success and hopefully more fun. However, all along the way, I always knew that no matter the score or outcome, if someone enjoyed what they were doing, it was always a success. So I do understand that we will have members who never miss a Regional or National. We will also have members who will never leave their state and only attend Chapter events. We will also have members who only join for the magazines. and never attend an event. As long as they are content with their membership I think that is a success. One of our favorite 63-64 Team members (Rick Twining) who recently passed never owned a Corvette. He just loved learning and judging.
I do believe we can make this Concours program something that the current members along with the future members will enjoy and participate in. Through other clubs and shows, along with my everyday activities, I encounter so many Corvette owners who are not part of NCRS. Would they join? Would the get enjoyment? Would they participate? I think a good program that encompasses these people is necessary for those people. Then maybe we will end the Corvette owners who say "OH, your one of those people"!
Regards,Comment
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In Tony Stein’s “sticky”, he notes the challenge of lowering the average age of members. This, I’m sure, has been an ongoing challenge for many years. When he noted the average age is currently 70 I was only a bit surprised. One only needs to attend regional and national events to witness this firsthand. Just look at all the gray/white hair! At age 71, I appear to be right in the sweet spot😳. Anyway, with an average age of 70 with current membership, it’s readily apparent that lowering the average age by any significant amount (even to age, say, 65) will be difficult. Increasing membership though, is obviously the answer. While I realize and support the judging component of our organization I am wondering if our expansion (concours et.al) should be merely a “show” class versus a judging class. After all, much of our desire both personally and as an organization is to enjoy the Corvette cars. I’m sure this view will illicit a number of other thoughts but our world changes every day and if we are to succeed into the future we must be open to consideration for changes ourselves.
TerryComment
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Hi Terry,
In Tony's sticky post he said, "...Others have suggested that the Sportsman program allows for C8 Corvettes participation. Although the Sportsman program is a nice program, it is not as robust as we would like a re-imagined Concours program to be..."
I have participated in Sportsman class - and they are no pressure outings in that sense.
Plus it offers a small token of money to the Chapter, Regional or National Event...
Sounds like that will continue to exist, but with a step-up for whatever comes out of all of this.thx,
MarkComment
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After 35 years of wanting an N03 car I finally have one. I can not afford a body off now and maybe ever. I am a member since 1988 and only had 1 car judged. I do plan on putting the N03 car through concours soon.Comment
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Bill: Here is a typical example of why the name Concours should remain. Your car like my
66 can not be judged in "Flight Judging" unless you give the GM/Chevy paperwork to
the NCRS to varify. I assume you do not have the original paperwork.(Maybe I am wrong)
where I have the paperwork but due to privacy WILL NOT GIVE IT TO THEM. My car has gotten
a Top Flight award(Before the above rule was made) and a recent Concours Stock Blue Ribbon with of score of 99.2. I would and maybe you also would never enter cars like this if they ever changed the name to "Modified Class"indicated all cars in the class are modified which
they are not now. Of course JMHO-Larry
Larry
LT1 in a 1LE -- One of 134Comment
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Hi Larry,
I respectfully disagree with you.
If Bill's car has a Trim Plate (and I must assume it does or Bill would not have bought it) that trim plate code will verify it is an N03 car (or not, eh?).
No documentation is needed assuming the specific option was equipped on 20 or more cars (see rare car judging qualifier assigned by Roy Sinor in the Restorer many years ago) AND the NTL for whatever year his car is verifies the Trim Plate is "REAL".
If it's one of the only two 1967 N03s, then yes, scrutiny and documentation would be escalated...and warranted IMO.
Again, with all due respect, your secrecy about your car puzzles me - but, it's your car, your right to not share - and so be it.
You are one of many NCRS members I have encountered who apparently have this attitude.
I don't understand it and never will - but it's not my dog on the day - I can live with it...
thx,
MarkComment
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