Concours Naming Survey Q

[Joseph S.]

With all due respect and undoubtedly an unpopular opinion….. The National Corvettes RESTORERS Society was a club like no other. It was established to persevere and restore. Not modified non factory (while awesome) examples.

This judging class has somewhat diminished the “Value” of what was once a leading car enthusiasts source of inspiration and information for researchers and restorers.

Let the show n shines hand out the trophies.

Kevin, I understand your stance and opinion as a purist of original and restored cars. If you give me time and accept my/our thoughts I think you will agree all Corvettes belong in NCRS. Yes, NCRS has built a fabulous reputation as the GO TO organization for Restoration and Preservation of Corvettes. Our manuals, years of research and member knowledge are beyond comparison! That being said, there are plenty, or I should say many, Corvettes that were heavily used and abused or modified as we all did in our youth. Some of those cars are better examples of well kept cars than most of the cars I started with to personally restore, for myself, over my 40 year NCRS existence. We should not reject or exclude these cars from our organization. Therefore we need to create a positive program for these cars that will add value to these cars just as our Flight & Bowtie programs already do. This is a monumental task to get right, but I'm sure we can alter our existing Concours program to facilitate this. It will not be just a "Show & Shine" category.
For the cars that no longer will fit into Flight or Star, no matter what the issue; Engine swap; Color change; Manual to Automatic change; Trim tag issue; and many more modifications, we need a program similar to our other programs. These cars have also been Restored & Preserved. Isn't that our mission statement? For the Restoration and Preservation of Corvettes! Sounds like that fits all Corvettes from 1953-2025.
For the newer cars that we currently do not judge under Flight or Star programs, we'll need a division and system to bring those on board also, since someday they will be old enough to judge in the other divisions. This way we can gain knowledge of these models, and attract future judges for those divisions.
I hope you and all our members will keep an open mind to this program, just as I have, and allow us to welcome every Corvette and Corvette owner into NCRS. This endeavor will in no way affect or diminish the integrity of any of our other programs or awards.

Regards, Joe

[Sherri D.]

I thought this survey had been taken and the results were to keep it Concurs Stock and Concours Modified. Why is there resistance to the name Concours?

We all know that the NCRS Concours class is not the same as a Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance. For years we have said we need to grow our membership and this is the way to get people who have beautiful, expensive hotrods or other wise modified Corvettes to feel welcome at our events. I think we need to spend the time on advertising NCRS Concours divisions before we concentrate on trying to find a different name which won't result in any different judging standards--just a name change.

[Bob W.]

I,Agree with sherri & Joe. I own my cars to drive and enjoy,not trailer around. I like looking at restored and every day drivers . We need more MEMBERS.

[Dave P.]

Mary Barra is probably more likely to be recognized as the political appointee of the president with 3 Muslim names, than for her accomplishments as CEO of GM. For myself, the mention of her name is politically-polarizing.

It's a car club. Keep politics out of it.

If you need a name of an uninspiring female in a leadership role that cost her organization dearly, I suggest: The Shannon Urton Award.

[Patrick H.]

I thought this survey had been taken and the results were to keep it Concurs Stock and Concours Modified. Why is there resistance to the name Concours?

We all know that the NCRS Concours class is not the same as a Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance.

You answered your own question.
"We all" is a very small number in the car community, especially when you consider that the goal is to entice new members.
For the vast majority of car-appreciating public a concours "is" Pebble Beach, or Amelia, or similar.
Using it to describe the group of cars we're currently judging with that name doesn't fit.

[Terry M.]

Well, I missed the Concours Naming Survey so shame on me. That said, I have always thought that the “concours” moniker for this class of Corvettes was confusing. I guess I’ve kind of considered “concours” vehicles to be more in the vein of original cars whether flight or star cars in the case of Corvettes. Anyway, I agree with Joe, Sherri and Bob wholeheartedly. I love all Corvettes whether original (judged) or non-judged or modified. Day Two cars are a favorite and a sign of the times when those cars were new or nearly so. I definitely think our hobby (NCRS in particular) needs a place for these cars as well as a meaningful way to recognize them. I’m sure those owners enjoy/appreciate the original cars as much as I enjoy theirs. And, as is obvious by other comments both here and in other posts, we always need to be expanding our membership and this, certainly, has the potential to do just that. So, I welcome the daily drivers, restomods and Day Two cars to our hobby. Finally, I also like Terry’s suggestion of “personalized”.

Respectfully,
The Other Terry M

[Michael J.]

You answered your own question.
"We all" is a very small number in the car community, especially when you consider that the goal is to entice new members.
For the vast majority of car-appreciating public a concours "is" Pebble Beach, or Amelia, or similar.
Using it to describe the group of cars we're currently judging with that name doesn't fit.

I agree, having started my car addiction in the Mustang Club of America, and Shelby American Auto Club judging, where "Concours" (both Trailered and Driven Classes) means fully, meticulously, and accurately restored and presented as it left the factory, exactly the same as Flight, it would confuse me. Talking to Corvette owners at Cars and Coffee and other events, that name conveys the exact wrong impression based on many folks non-NCRS experiences.

[Duke W.]

With all due respect and undoubtedly an unpopular opinion….. The National Corvettes RESTORERS Society was a club like no other. It was established to persevere and restore. Not modified non factory (while awesome) examples.

This judging class has somewhat diminished the “Value” of what was once a leading car enthusiasts source of inspiration and information for researchers and restorers.

Let the show n shines hand out the trophies.

You've made a good point, and I withdraw my nominees from post #12 since they are all significant for their contribution to production Corvettes and Corvette-based GM showcars.

I forgot which class is which, but for cars modified for more performance perhaps the award could be named for well known individuals who who managed Corvette race teams or drove production-based Corvettes in competition like John Mecom, Roger Penske, Grady Davis, Delmo Johnson, Dick Guldstrand, John Greenwood...

For custom body work - the more outrageous the better - offer the "Korky's Award" - named for the guy who tortured a wrecked C3 for the 1978 movie "Corvette Summer".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPAhc1Y23Sg

...naaah, never mind!

Duke

[Kent S.]

The Cadillac & LaSalle Club has a division for "Personalized Cars". I suggest that name for the Concours division. I don't believe the C&LaS Club has copyrighted that name, but if it sounds right some quick investigation is in order.

I'm a member of the Vintage Chevrolet Club of America (VCCA) and in an earlier smaller survey I suggested "Personalized Corvette". VCCA started a Chapter several years ago called "Personalized Chevy" that continues to grow. Their slogan is "My Chevy - My Way!". I like it! I think it perfectly describes the not so correct nature of thousands of nice Corvettes you see at Cars and Coffee and Cruise-in events.

[Owen L.]

I thought this survey had been taken and the results were to keep it Concurs Stock and Concours Modified. Why is there resistance to the name Concours?

The survey request just hit my email inbox on May 15th about noon-thirty.

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[Thomas H.]

I always thought Concours wasn't the right name for a class in the NCRS system as to me (and mentioned by others here and elsewhere) it conjures up visions of Pebble Beach type shows.

I say, keep it simple, Flight, Bowtie, etc and simply call the "new" class "Modified". Simple, after all, that is what they are.

As for how to break them down into sub classes (if necessary) and come up with a means to evaluate / judge them for issuing an award, that is a whole other can of worms.

I'd be interested to know how many new members the existing Concours class has brought in..............

[Reba W.]

I did not think Concours was a good choice from the beginning. In most automobile organizations, that term means "orginal" or "restored to original." To anyone outside NCRS, that is the meaning they will perceive. I have heard this objection from many other NCRS members.
Surely, we can come up with a term that has no person's name attached.

[Harry S.]

Here is the survey:
It does not format that well with the cut & paste.

You have the choice to leave as is, select from some suggested names or pick one of your own.

A reasonable request from Board.

* Please select your preferred name for the "Concours" program: Concours Program All-American Sports Car Program Specialty Program Mary Barra Program Corvette Legends Program Classic Glass Program Other * For all year Corvettes, which name do you prefer for those Corvettes having modifications? Customized Division Modified Division Personalized Division Resto-Mod Division Resto-Rod Division Other *For all year Corvettes, which name do you prefer for those Corvettes having no modifications? Stock Division Street-Stock Division Non-Modified Division Other

[Mark F.]

...Some of those cars are better examples of well kept cars than most of the cars I started with to personally restore, for myself, over my 40 year NCRS existence. We should not reject or exclude these cars from our organization. Therefore we need to create a positive program for these cars that will add value to these cars just as our Flight & Bowtie programs already do...

For the cars that no longer will fit into Flight or Star, no matter what the issue; Engine swap; Color change; Manual to Automatic change; Trim tag issue; and many more modifications, we need a program similar to our other programs. These cars have also been Restored & Preserved. Isn't that our mission statement? For the Restoration and Preservation of Corvettes! Sounds like that fits all Corvettes from 1953-2025. Agreed !

For the newer cars that we currently do not judge under Flight or Star programs, we'll need a division and system to bring those on board also, since someday they will be old enough to judge in the other divisions. This way we can gain knowledge of these models, and attract future judges for those divisions. Regards, Joe

Joe,

Your comments made me think of a "funnel"...I tried to do a funnel chart in Excel, but I couldn't get it to work.

Anyhow, there are some large numbers to consider for future opportunities...if we can attract even a very small percentage of total Corvette production to date (currently judged or not)...there could be a huge effect on new memberships.

Production numbers came from the web; flight numbers came from the NCRS Awards page; and I guessed at total current NCRS membership (11,000)

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[Michael J.]

True Mark, there is a huge pool of Corvettes and Corvette owners out there that are not NCRS members. But then again, of the 10,000+ members we have, how many attend Chapter, Regional, and National judging meets? I think that is also a very small % of the 10,000+. What is holding all those back from entering cars for judging?