Dislocated my upper control arm shaft- how to fix?

[Richard M.]

Re: Dislocated my upper control arm shaft- how to fix?

Michael,
Obviously, something went painfully wrong here. As Thomas stated, the bushing in your picture is missing some of it's parts. I've had the end bolts back off before but even if they fell out you wouldn't have failure as yours appears. If the bushings had been correctly installed, the metal sleeve of the bushings wouldn't have allowed the shaft to come away from the control arm...there just wouldn't have been enough room for it to fall out.
Pictured below is a picture of an upper control arm bushing. Compare it to what yours looks like and you'll see what were talking about.
Again, glad your son was smart enough to pull over and he's OK and the car will be OK.

Yes as Leif noted, the inner sleeve of the bushing pulled out of the rubber housing. I always thought that sleeve was vulcanized to the rubber. It appears that this one was not. Or in this case, it was but tore away from the rubber.

The sleeve seized itself to the shaft, which by design is not uncommon as rust will bond them together. The serrated edges of the sleeve are designed to bite into the shaft end flat circular surface as well as the large washer on the outside. Thus the rotation is designed to rotate by the twisting motion of the rubber, not the mating metal pieces turning.

Do we know enough about replacement bushings and their manufacturing process? I'm beginning to wonder if shortcuts have been made on non-GM replacements, whereas the vulcanizing process has been eliminated.

dislocated upper ctrl arm_zoom.jpg

[Joe L.]

Re: Dislocated my upper control arm shaft- how to fix?

Michael, it's not worth any short cuts. Spring needs to be compressed a little more than cars weight offers for safety and to remove and reinstall upper arm over top rubber bumper. A good spring compressor is easily found. I've seen springs pop loose and it's dangerous.

Mark------


As Duke describes, there's no need to compress the spring to remove the UPPER A-arm. I've done this several times with no problem, at all. To be honest, once-upon-a-time I thought it was necessary to compress the spring to remove the upper a-arm but I was wrong. The most difficult part of the job is separating the upper ball joint from the steering knuckle. The rest is easy.

Of course, to remove the LOWER A-arm the spring does need to be compressed.

[Michael L.]

Re: Dislocated my upper control arm shaft- how to fix?

I like to use it to start compressing the spring a little, so when you separate the upper ball joint from the spindle, it is contained and doesn't go flying. You would then remove the upper A-arm and then unload the spring. You have the rod and items already. You don't have to. It is all personal preference.

The way I'm seeing things, you are going to need to get the upper a arm off of the car to fix your issue. And you will need to compress the spring to put it back together.

but the car is together now. I'll use the weight of the car to compress the spring.

[Michael L.]

Re: Dislocated my upper control arm shaft- how to fix?

Thanks for all the helpful input. I'll be back in the shop tomorrow to tear this apart. I'll know a lot more then. Again, I had a supposed reputable vendor that I sourced from the Driveline do all of my work (front and rear) so not sure why the bushings may be funky, but you can see from my photo of the spring compressor setup that I did that in 2009! That means the a-arms were done before that, maybe even by a couple of years so we're talking 15 years maybe.

I'll post the photo's of the full a-arm and the passenger side as well as the lower a-arm bushings tomorrow. Stay tuned.

[Richard M.]

Re: Dislocated my upper control arm shaft- how to fix?

Mark------


As Duke describes, there's no need to compress the spring to remove the UPPER A-arm. I've done this several times with no problem, at all. To be honest, once-upon-a-time I thought it was necessary to compress the spring to remove the upper a-arm but I was wrong. The most difficult part of the job is separating the upper ball joint from the steering knuckle. The rest is easy.

Of course, to remove the LOWER A-arm the spring does need to be compressed.

Joe as an aside, my post#16 discusses the inner sleeve of the bushings. Were all GM bushing inner sleeves vulcanized? I don't have anything here to verify if they were or not. When I've rebuild control arms they appeared to be, but it has been a while. Can you tell from any of your NOS parts there?

Thanks,
Rich

[Joe L.]

Re: Dislocated my upper control arm shaft- how to fix?

Thanks for all the helpful input. I'll be back in the shop tomorrow to tear this apart. I'll know a lot more then. Again, I had a supposed reputable vendor that I sourced from the Driveline do all of my work (front and rear) so not sure why the bushings may be funky, but you can see from my photo of the spring compressor setup that I did that in 2009! That means the a-arms were done before that, maybe even by a couple of years so we're talking 15 years maybe.

I'll post the photo's of the full a-arm and the passenger side as well as the lower a-arm bushings tomorrow. Stay tuned.

Michael------


The bushing you pictured appears to be a reproduction bushing (or, it's the bushing originally installed on the car which I HIGHLY doubt. The original upper bushing, PRODUCTION and SERVICE, was GM #3711826. This bushing has the exposed rubber on the inner end (like all LOWER bushings). The 3711826 was discontinued for PRODUCTION and SERVICE in January, 1973 and replaced by GM #401267. The latter has the outer shell extending all the way to the end of the rubber portion of the bushing.

[Leif A.]

Re: Dislocated my upper control arm shaft- how to fix?

Michael------


The bushing you pictured appears to be a reproduction bushing (or, it's the bushing originally installed on the car which I HIGHLY doubt. The original upper bushing, PRODUCTION and SERVICE, was GM #3711826. This bushing has the exposed rubber on the inner end (like all LOWER bushings). The 3711826 was discontinued for PRODUCTION and SERVICE in January, 1973 and replaced by GM #401267. The latter has the outer shell extending all the way to the end of the rubber portion of the bushing.

Picture of the Moog K-5196 upper bushing.

[Joe L.]

Re: Dislocated my upper control arm shaft- how to fix?

Joe as an aside, my post#16 discusses the inner sleeve of the bushings. Were all GM bushing inner sleeves vulcanized? I don't have anything here to verify if they were or not. When I've rebuild control arms they appeared to be, but it has been a while. Can you tell from any of your NOS parts there?

Thanks,
Rich

Rich------


Yes, the a-arm bushings, upper and lower, have a rubberc component that is vulcanized or otherwise bonded to the outer and inner steel shells. In fact, if they were not so bonded (or, if the bond were to break in service), the bushing would not function as-designed. In that case, the rubber component would be essentially useless.

As I mentioned above, the original upper bushings were GM #3711826. These had the the rubber "collar" extending about 1/4" from the inner end. These bushings were manufactured by HARRIS and that name is embossed on the outer end of the rubber on original PRODUCTION or GM SERVICE bushings.

As I also mentioned, the above was discontinued in 1973 and replaced by GM #401267. The latter is essentially identical to the above except that the outer shell extends all the way to the inner end of the rubber, with no exposed rubber "collar" on the inner end. These bushings were manufactured by CLEVITE and have that name embossed on the outer rubber end.

The lower bushings were always GM #3714368 from 1963 to 1982. These are, of course, larger than the upper bushings. They have the exposed rubber "collar" on the inner end, just like the 3711368 upper bushings. Also, like the latter upper bushings, they were manufactured by HARRIS and have that name embossed on the outer rubber end.

Harris and Clevite may also have supplied bushings sold under other brand names.If so, I would consider those as being the same as the GM source bushings. However, personally, I would be reluctant to use any reproduction bushings or aftermarket that are not identified as being of Harris or Clevite manufacture. This has absolutely nothing to do with maintaining some nuance of originality, especially since the embossments cannot be seen once the bushings are installed, It's because I have faith in the quality of the Harris and Clevite bushings.

By the way, the GM #401267 and 3714368 bushings are GM-discontinued.

[Richard M.]

Re: Dislocated my upper control arm shaft- how to fix?

Joe, thank you for confirming the vulcanizing of the sleeves, and the very detailed information regarding the GM bushings.

Rich

[Michael L.]

Re: Dislocated my upper control arm shaft- how to fix?

OK so I got back in the shop today. Attached are the pics of the rear drivers a-arm bushing and the pass side. These bushings look like the style that have the small area of rubber exposed as seen in the pic posted previously. What's happened is the vulcanization seems to have failed and the inner bushing sleeve dislocated in the front bushing on the drivers side, and the outer sleeve on the rear drivers bushing seperated from the rubber. Obviously this wouldn't have happened if the bolts had been loctited (or even torqued properly). I will get the car up on the lift and take and post some pics of the lower control arm bushings in a bit. Both sides will have to be done as the bushings on the passenger side are beginning to fail as well. Although the bushings were installed 15 years ago, they only have about 50 miles on them so obviously they were not quality bushings to begin with. I already have the replacement bushings from a vendor but not sure if they are either of the brands Joe mentioned. I'll probably just put these new bushings in and loctite and torque them and then just make sure I check them occasionally going forward. They're not labeled as far as I can tell they're in a bag with just the vendor's label on them.

Drivers said a-arm rear B.jpgDrivers said a-arm rear.jpgDrivers said a-arm rear C.jpgpass a-arm front.jpgpass a-arm front B.jpg

[Michael L.]

Re: Dislocated my upper control arm shaft- how to fix?

Here are the lower bushings. One of them is showing signs of wear already, the rest look OK. I'm going to pull the bolts and re-torque and loctite them. I'll keep an eye on them and put replacing the lower bushings on my to do list but I'm not going to do them right now.

[Michael L.]

Re: Dislocated my upper control arm shaft- how to fix?

forgot to post the pics

lower a-arm bushing front drivers (2).jpglower a-arm bushing front drivers.jpglower a-arm bushing rear drivers A.jpglower a-arm bushing rear drivers.jpglower a-arm bushing front pass.jpglower a-arm bushing rear pass.jpg

[Richard M.]

Re: Dislocated my upper control arm shaft- how to fix?

Mike, It's clear now how the shaft pulled out of the bushing in your 1st post. The opposite side bushing unseated itself from the arm and allowed the other side to pull out under the stresses of turning.

But, but when you get both upper control arms off, I would very carefully inspect the arm bushing holes mating surfaces for cracks.

Are you going to send them out for repair/replacement or are you going to do this yourself? If you're going to do it yourself you'll need some support tubes. Others have done it the old-fashioned brute force method, but I prefer a press using a controlled process. See below.

Rich
PS photos of your lowers never got uploaded in you last post. Moot point at this tenure though. You have some work ahead of you on those uppers. (negate that, I see you noticed)
Edit- now that I see your lowers, it appears some of the bolts may be a bit loose.

Uppers
P7050001.jpg


P7050003.jpg


P7050004.jpg


P7050005.jpg


Lowers - Need a slot in the tube for the shaft mount boss.
P7060023.jpg

P7060024.jpg


P7060027.jpg

[Patrick H.]

Re: Dislocated my upper control arm shaft- how to fix?

Also, do not forget that they need to be torqued with the full weight of the car on the suspension.
This can be a challenge!

You can hand tighten the bolts, but do not go any further until the car is on the ground (or 4 post lift) completely settled. Roll it back and forth a bit, and then tighten them.

If these were torqued with just the chassis weight, that may have contributed to their failure.

[Leif A.]

Re: Dislocated my upper control arm shaft- how to fix?

Also, do not forget that they need to be torqued with the full weight of the car on the suspension.
This can be a challenge!

You can hand tighten the bolts, but do not go any further until the car is on the ground (or 4 post lift) completely settled. Roll it back and forth a bit, and then tighten them.

If these were torqued with just the chassis weight, that may have contributed to their failure.

Absolutely agree. "A bit of a challenge" is an understatement. Virtually impossible to get a torque wrench on those upper bolts...the front ones, especially. Once on the ground, rocked back and forth, just tighten the snot out of them.