69 K66 Ignition

[Lawrence S.]

Regarding the above, is the resistor wire that is in the engine harness connected to the coil? Or is it not used on K66.

I am installing a TI distributor in my 69 L71 and removing a PO install of a Mallory distributor. There is some minor wire repair work to be done, and need to figure out this resistor wire.

Thanks

Lawrence

[Duke W.]

Re: 69 K66 Ignition

If you're installing a TI distributor I assume you must be installing a complete TI system, which would include the TI amp and harness. The TI harness has it's own resistor wire. Refer to the wiring diagrams in your CSM.

Duke

[Richard M.]

Re: 69 K66 Ignition

Because I have NEVER worked on a K66 C3 before, I must warn you that I'd feel better getting confirmation of the following.....

I've spent about a hour or so reviewing what's available to me. I have a 1969 AIM and have reviewed the UPC K66 Sheet A3 information, along with the non-K66 wiring diagrams and AIM references, and a CSM K66 diagram. It certainly was not precisely clear, but after some more research this is what I came up with.

Since the 1969 uses the white resistor wire, as opposed to the pre-1968 stock point system Ballast resistor, this white resistor wire will NOT be used in a K66 C3 system. It gets disconnected, but not removed from the car.

DEATILS:
K66 instructions state to remove the 12G PINK wire from the Ignition Switch connector. This Pink wire eventually connects to the White resistor wire in the non-K66 forward engine harness. In it's place, a replacement "short" harness AIM K66-B3 Item 2, 6293398 "WIRE ASM" is used. I believe I found a replacement here....
e-487_72.jpg

This harness has a female terminal which then plugs into the Ignition switch in place of the stock Pink wire(to white wire). One of the other connectors of this harness then plugs into the TI Harness, main power feed White wire. I'm not sure which one, but likely the one on the longest end. I have no idea what the other connector is for. Maybe a IGN feed tap on the C3 for options? The AIM seems to show a place for this wire to pass, maybe thru a grommet?

The 12G Pink wire that was removed from the Ignition switch now has no power. The other end of this wire normally terminates at the non-K66 ignition coil + terminal, via the white resistor wire path.

Instructions(K66-B3 VIEW A) state to "Remove Engine Wiring Harness positive lead from Coil, remove existing terminal from lead, attach terminal(item 11) to yellow wire. Insert terminal into Connector (Item 1)." Note it doesn't say what to do with White wire... yet.

"positive lead from Coil" ... I believe this is the White resistor wire AND a Yellow wire at stock non-K66 Coil +.

Cut the U-shaped terminal from both wires. You now connect a new (female)terminal and plastic (male)connector to the Yellow wire. This Yellow wire then proceeds into the engine harness and terminates at the Solenoid R terminal. The TI Harness has a mating connector which will then plug into the new Yellow wire connector. This same TI Harness mating connector is attached to the TI Distributor(2 terminal) connector to the TI Harness(pink wire). It has a Pink wire short extension. This is what the new terminal on the Yellow wire connects to. During Engine START/CRANK, full battery voltage is then applied to both the Distributor Pickup Coil and the TI Amplifier via the Yellow wire circuit. This bypasses the TI harness main 12V feed path.

Now what happens to the original White resistor wire in the engine bay......
Nowhere in the information is this discussed, except in one place, K66-B3 Item 12

" TAPE-5 INCHES A. Used to tape Red-White & Black positive Coil wire to Engine Wiring Harness. " Red-White & Black ???

Since this has no power(because the other end, 12G Pink wire was removed from the Ignition switch), it appears it can be just tucked away taped up to the engine harness.

SUMMARY:
The original White resistor wire is disconnected from the Ignition switch, cut from the engine harness, and simply taped up and isolated from use.


MISC:

The following is the 66-71 TI CSM wiring. Not too clear as it has some inaccurate data and ambiguous notes as it tried to cover all years in one diagram. i.e. not all colors are correct, along with errors in text. The notes and wiring legend(errors there too). The dashed lines are not all correct. The White resistor wire you're disconnecting is on the right side next to NOTE: 1. The Ignition switch(lower left) shows both Old and New wires. One is the short Ign extension harness described above. The old one is still shown connected to the Ign switch, which after K66 installation in a C3, is not connected.

66-71_Diagram.jpg

I will try to scan a copy of my 69 AIM K66 sheet later.
Done....
1969_K66_B3.jpg

Again, I could be wrong with some of this, so use caution.

Rich

[Richard M.]

Re: 69 K66 Ignition

I have a major correction to make after further research and reviewing the 1969 Wiring Diagram. This has to do with the 12G Pink wire terminal removed from the Ignition Switch. Nowhere in the K66 A3 sheet does it explain this.

See corrections in BOLD text below.

Also had the K66 Sheet # wrong in some of my text. It's K66 A3, not B3.

Also corrections about which wire passes through firewall grommet. It's NOT the Pink short harness wire.

Rich
PS I think I learned a little bit about TI in a C3 now.

DEATILS:
K66 instructions state to remove the 12G PINK wire from the Ignition Switch connector. This Pink wire eventually connects to the White resistor wire in the non-K66 forward engine harness. In it's place, a replacement "short" harness AIM K66-A3 Item 2, 6293398 "WIRE ASM" is used. I believe I found a replacement here....
[ATTACH=CONFIG]100350[/ATTACH]

This harness has a female terminal which then plugs into the Ignition switch in place of the stock Pink wire(to white wire). One of the other connectors of this harness then plugs into the TI Harness, main power feed White wire......

.... the one on the longest end. Connection is inside the cabin. See Details diagram below. AIM UPC 12 C2 shows this "production" firewall grommet and a RPO K66 wire passing through it. The TI Harness main feed White resistor wire male plastic connector plugs into this short harness long pigtail mating connector.

The other female plastic connector(with male terminal) inside the cabin of the short wire harness is for the REMOVED Ign Switch female terminal. Insert the female terminal into the supplied male plastic connector. Plug this connector into the short pigtail mating female plastic connector of the short wire harness.

That 12G Pink wire connects not only to the original Points Coil+ (White Red/Blk) resistor wire through the bulkhead connector of the engine harness, but it also is wired to the main fuse panel inside the cabin main harness. This becomes a fused(18G Pink) IGN feed that is used to power the dash gauges and Park Brake and Door Ajar lamps. Obviously a important connection. The AIM isn't descriptive at all of this connection.

Look closely at K66 A3, below the boxed NOTE about removing the 12G Pink wire. It shows a zig-zag line of the removed 12G pink wire, connecting into the female plastic connector of the short harness. There is no text description of doing this and is simply a AIM deficiency, albeit a sizable one.
Detail from AIM enlarged....
[ATTACH=CONFIG]100402[/ATTACH]

The AIM seems to show a place for this wire to pass, maybe thru a grommet?
It does NOT pass through the grommet, the TI harness white power wire does, according to the AIM. See AIM detail enlargement below. I am unsure if the AIM is correct. It would be good to get confirmation of where this connection is made on original TI cars.

Note: Remember there are 2 White Resistor wires in a TI Harness. One is the 12V TI power wire with male plastic connector(female terminal), the other is the Coil+ wire with the U-shaped terminal.


Now what happens to the original White resistor wire in the engine bay......
Nowhere in the information is this discussed, except in one place, K66-A3 Item 12
" TAPE-5 INCHES A. Used to tape Red-White & Black positive Coil wire to Engine Wiring Harness. " Red-White & Black ???

It is extremely important that the end of this wire is securely insulated and taped because it will have voltage there with IGN On. Note this wire is UNFUSED. Because it is a resistor wire it is possible it would burn up inside the harness if a direct short to ground occurred and before blowing the fusible link at it's power source.

Edit... Adding another enlarged AIM sheet detail. Note that I discovered the AIM shows the white TI harness power wire goes from the engine bay into the cabin through the firewall grommet. AIM depictions of the plastic connectors is a bit unclear.

2nd Detail from AIM enlarged....
[ATTACH=CONFIG]100403[/ATTACH]
Rich

[Mark G.]

Re: 69 K66 Ignition

I can't add much but only to say: acquire a real genuine GM t.i. coil. I blew through 2 modules on key on/startup with a non GM t.i. coil.

[Lawrence S.]

Re: 69 K66 Ignition

Duke,
My car is a real L71, with all TI components less the distributor and some hack cut the TI harness when installing the Mallory distributor.
Richard,
Great info, thank you. I agree, not very clear for I have read what you posted, and have come to the conclusion that I need to buy the repro harness from Lectric Limited and move on.
Guys I appreciate the feedback!

Lawrence

[Richard M.]

Re: 69 K66 Ignition

I can't add much but only to say: acquire a real genuine GM t.i. coil. I blew through 2 modules on key on/startup with a non GM t.i. coil.

Mark, Were those 2 modules Original Delco or K&B(green) or LL(encapsulated)?

Also, when you say caused by a non-GM TI coil, what coil was it?

Rich

[Mark G.]

Re: 69 K66 Ignition

Richard, the were the encapsulated ones.DSC03408.jpg

[Richard M.]

Re: 69 K66 Ignition

Richard, the were the encapsulated ones.

Interesting. I've been using the K&B modules for years on several cars. On a L71 I even used a Standard Products UC12 points coil for months until I located a NOS Delco 207 TI coil(service replacement for the 263). The K&B module worked fine with that UC12 coil for normal non-redline cruising.

Rich

P7180011.jpg

[Mark G.]

Re: 69 K66 Ignition

At the time of my t.i. re-install, I was using a msd blaster ss coil along with a msd 6a box. It was triggered by the stock gm t.i. distributor. When I tried to start the engine, it would run for maybe a second. Then it would crank with no spark. Next new module had the same results. Installed a third module and a GM t.i. coil. No problems since. Maybe K&B is not t.i. coil dependent?????

[Richard M.]

Re: 69 K66 Ignition

At the time of my t.i. re-install, I was using a msd blaster ss coil along with a msd 6a box. It was triggered by the stock gm t.i. distributor. When I tried to start the engine, it would run for maybe a second. Then it would crank with no spark. Next new module had the same results. Installed a third module and a GM t.i. coil. No problems since. Maybe K&B is not t.i. coil dependent?????

Meant to say Lectric Limited not M&H regarding the encapsulated module. I think LL makes it.

So the MSD Blaster coil was the issue. I am not familiar with those.

K&B does not advertise that a non-TI coil will work, but Dave Fiedler at TI Specialty casually mentioned to me that for test purposes a non-TI coil would work, ie a stock points coil. Note this doesn't apply to original Delco Modules.

But I thought I read somewhere long ago that the LL encapsulated unit is not TI coil dependent either. Could be wrong though.

Rich

[Mark G.]

Re: 69 K66 Ignition

Before I mounted the module where it belongs, I laid it on the fender and used a stand alone ground wire for the case. At this time I replaced the underhood and module K66 wire harnesses with new ones. Lost spark. Next module, lost spark, next module and t.i. coil, engine ran.Short story made long, the original owner cut the harness where the two harnesses join, changed the 3 wire plug to a Ford style connector- he worked for Ford at the time- and made his own ignition module that he mounted next to the master cylinder and grounded by using a alligator clipped jumper wire. This way he could take the module with him when he left the car sitting, sort of an anti theft device. This is the coil I was using with the 6a box.15-12-05 (2).jpg

[Lawrence S.]

Re: 69 K66 Ignition

I can't add much but only to say: acquire a real genuine GM t.i. coil. I blew through 2 modules on key on/startup with a non GM t.i. coil.

Thanks for the heads up

[Lawrence S.]

Re: 69 K66 Ignition

I have a major correction to make after further research and reviewing the 1969 Wiring Diagram. This has to do with the 12G Pink wire terminal removed from the Ignition Switch. Nowhere in the K66 A3 sheet does it explain this.

See corrections in BOLD text below.

Also had the K66 Sheet # wrong in some of my text. It's K66 A3, not B3.

Also corrections about which wire passes through firewall grommet. It's NOT the Pink short harness wire.

Rich
PS I think I learned a little bit about TI in a C3 now.

Richard,
You pointed out something that I have been struggling with. The white resistor wire that comes through the firewall and is part of the TI harness, what do I do with that when I replace the TI harness? The harness that LL sales just has the wire that connects to the yellow wire, connection to the distributor, leads to the coil. https://www.lectriclimited.com/trans...harness-104027. Not sure what to do with that white resistor wire?

[Richard M.]

Re: 69 K66 Ignition

Richard,
You pointed out something that I have been struggling with. The white resistor wire that comes through the firewall and is part of the TI harness, what do I do with that when I replace the TI harness? The harness that LL sales just has the wire that connects to the yellow wire, connection to the distributor, leads to the coil. https://www.lectriclimited.com/trans...harness-104027. Not sure what to do with that white resistor wire?

Lawrence,

Sorry but I never saw this at that time or I would have replied then. Maybe I missed the email notification or never got it.

I see you have a new thread asking the same question but I will reply in this thread and copy your text and photos here for future user reference to keep all the info in one place.

From HERE ......

I need to change out my TI harness, and Per the photo, what appears is a resistor wire going into the firewall from the TI Harness. Any idea where this wire goes? I have looked and can’t quit locate it. Also the lectric limited TI harness does not appear to have this wire? I am sure I am overlooking something. i started a related thread but this is slightly different.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]100968[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]100969[/ATTACH]

So that white resistor wire is the power to the TI system which I showed in posts 3 and 4 in this thread. Your photo is exactly what I wanted to see to confirm the AIM showing it going into the under dash area. It connects to that special Pink short wiring that connects to the ignition switch under dash. It has to be very difficult to get at which is why you can't see it.

Also see your old TI harness was used and connected to a ballast resistor for the points distributor system. And the old pink wire likely wired to coil+ and Solenoid R(yellow wire). All that needs to come out too.

Rich
PS remember I've never done a C3 K66 but I'm familiar with basic C2 TI wiring.