1967 BB Hood Stripe 40% Deduct - NCRS Discussion Boards

1967 BB Hood Stripe 40% Deduct

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  • Edward M.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • October 31, 1985
    • 1916

    #46
    Re: closure of the 67 BB hood stinger by don

    Originally posted by Mike McCagh (14)
    i disagree with harry who stated the thread had become unfriendly. nor do i agree with the threads closure. until the controversial current paint deduction issue is resolved, i enjoy reading other members input on this deduction issue. mike mccagh
    This whole issue has puzzled me from the first time NCRS came online. It has almost become a joke / punchline on other Corvette related forums.

    The scenario is pretty much the same.

    1. Some sort of ruling / guidance / suggestion is announced (usually in The Restorer)
    2. Now, while I am sure that said ruling etc. is clear to the author of said ruling, it may not be clear to others.
    3. Members get on the NCRS DB and voice their concerns / issues etc. with said ruling.
    4. Others join in the discussion.
    5. Someone will invariably state / inform members that the answers are in the Judging Reference Manual / Judging Manual / Advanced Seminars / NCRS Judging School / <fill in the blank> and that all anyone has to do is stop being lazy and read (or stop being cheap and go) to various schools).
    6. Other members state objections to this tone of response, or continue to ask for clarification.
    7. A member (or members) complains that they object to the thread (and by the way, this prerogative "appears" to be restricted to certain members).
    8. Moderator, citing fact that "members are complaining", and rather than explaining the issue clearly and concisely, instead implements standard TB response - close the thread.
    9. Members open another thread, objecting to the closure of the first thread.
    10. Members also continue to ask for clarification, because the issue IS SILL NOT CLEAR!
    11. Moderators / admins / etc. unilaterally (or on direction for higher authority), implement standard TB response.
    12. This leaves some number of members feeling frustrated / left out / ignored / neglected.
    13. Moderators / admins / etc. continue to tell members to contact their regional representatives for clarification / suggestions / etc.


    Now, from my personal experience, with two exceptions, every suggestion / request for clarification / etc. has been met with ... wait for it ... DEAD SILENCE. This process even has a nickname on other forums; it is called "the black hole".

    I have made numerous suggestions over the years that would have at least required discussion at the BOD level, but I never hear a word about it. It fell into the black hole.

    Now, I do recognize that there are many members who could not care less about me, much less about what I think. But that is not the point.
    ANY suggestion, from ANY member, deserves at the very least an acknowledgement that the suggestion was received, and once the issue is discussed and decided, a follow up status.

    As an example:

    My example suggestion (to my regional rep): I think we should implement term limits for all NCRS elected and appointed officials. A new set of eyes every so often is a good idea.

    My example regional reps's initial response: I received your suggestion for implementing term limits for all NCRS elected and appointed officials. This would have to be addressed by the Board of Directors. I will take the action to put it on the agenda for discussion by the BOD at the next meeting scheduled for July of this year.

    The comes Late July or August, and my regional reps followup response: Your suggestion about term limits for all elected / appointed officials was discussed at the BOD meeting in July. The BOD has appointed a team consisting of elected members, appointed members, and regular members to review the suggestions, and to report back top the BOD with their analysis of the pros and cons of implementing a system like this. I will continue to update you as progress continues.

    That is a reasonable and prudent way to handle issue like this.

    If anyone really objects to a topic / thread / whatever, there is a very easy solution to this ...STOP READING IT!!! If it really bothers you, ignore the thread / topic altogether.

    And finally, for the record, I still cannot figure out what the issue is with 1967 hood stingers. I wish someone would explain it to me ... in English please.

    Kudos to David Brigham for considering my suggestion, and especially for replying in both an thoughtful and insightful manner. It is clear from David's response that, while my suggestion may not get any traction, but I do know that was and is being considered and evaluated in an objective manner.

    I can't ask for anything beyond that.

    Comment

    • Dick W.
      Former NCRS Director Region IV
      • June 30, 1985
      • 10483

      #47
      Re: closure of the 67 BB hood stinger by don

      Ed, in business the best way to kill an ideal is to form a committee to study it. The committee becomes the black hole​. Steven Hawking stated that light does escape a black hole, but I have never seen any evidence
      Dick Whittington

      Comment

      • Rick A.
        Extremely Frequent Poster
        • July 31, 2002
        • 2147

        #48
        Re: closure of the 67 BB hood stinger by don

        Originally posted by Mike McCagh (14)
        I have the paint flow chart and have reviewed it numerous times. can't say I agree with the contents. mike
        Mike, so now we are at the root of the problem for you - you have the flow chart; you have studied it and understand it; but can't say you agree with the contents. Now we can OBJECTIVELY find out exactly what you have a problem with. Please expound on what is wrong with the contents.
        Rick Aleshire
        2016 Ebony C7R Z06 "ROSA"

        Comment

        • Rick A.
          Extremely Frequent Poster
          • July 31, 2002
          • 2147

          #49
          Re: closure of the 67 BB hood stinger by don

          Keith did NOT get a chance to look at the thread completely so coming at this blind. Sure going to judging seminars, etc. are nice and encouraged, but like you noted not convenient, cost effective, etc. especially with new baby! (CONGRATS) Did NOT know the entire thread was just about the stinger, but was more about PAINT in general. As Mr. Stamos noted several times in the closed htread the stinger information has been available in the AIM for years, so nothing new there. What I believe the heartburn was all about was the "addendum" to the PAINT FLOW CHART on the stinger? And, if that is the case have NOT seen that specifically spelled out, but believe it would have been discussed by the NJC and NTLs and wording agreed to; posted in Restorer magazine and then presented to the membership. Again, if folks have a problem with this process then hopefully NJC and NTLs are taking notice and will address the concerns.
          Rick Aleshire
          2016 Ebony C7R Z06 "ROSA"

          Comment

          • David B.
            Former NCRS National Judging Chairman
            • February 28, 1985
            • 219

            #50
            Re: closure of the 67 BB hood stinger by don

            Well, it's good to see that people occasionally do read what I write in the Restorer.

            Here's the issue as the NTL's and I discussed at our meeting in January. Judges have asked for guidance on the deduction for stinger paint that varies from what is normally seen and expected. I believe that the stinger on a BB '67 is a very important component of the exterior of that MY. Some of the stinger paint jobs that Nick and I have seen do not come anywhere close to what an experienced member, judge or restorer would expect to see. The purpose of a standard deduction is to do exactly what the name implies...standardize the deduction so that the same car has a better chance of getting the same score when judged at a different location with different judges.

            It has been pointed out, by Gene I believe, that our Flight Judging Standard is: the way it left the factory...no better and no worse. Our judging system encourages owners and restorers to come as close to this standard as they can. Paint is probably the biggest factor in the appearance of the overall car; stinger placement and stripe width that look like the duck mentioned by Dick should get a deduction.

            Yes, judging paint is subjective. Experienced judges can spot a paint issue when they first approach the car. Although I do not want to get my response off the original topic of stinger paint, I will say that the TL's and I have worked hard to encourage members who paint their car with modern-day materials to give their paint job much of the appearance of that material and method used in the day. The deduction for BC/CC with authentic appearance is only 10% more than the deduction for over-restorer original material.

            Photo E 8-1 in the new 1967 TIMJG (7th Edition) has a nice shot of the pinstripe width.

            Regards,
            Dave

            Comment

            • Danny P.
              • Today

              #51

              Comment

              • Frank D.
                Expired
                • December 26, 2007
                • 2703

                #52
                Re: closure of the 67 BB hood stinger by don

                Originally posted by Mike McCagh (14)
                i disagree with harry who stated the thread had become unfriendly. nor do i agree with the threads closure. until the controversial current paint deduction issue is resolved, i enjoy reading other members input on this deduction issue. mike mccagh
                I agree.
                I see nothing on here constituting personal attacks..or even 'unfriendly'...guess I have different definitions for those.....

                Comment

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