1970 Heel Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

[Bob B.]

Is the heal pad Al Knoch installs on his 1970 Corvette carpet correct for NCRS Top Flight ?
THANKS What is this about the corn rolls being installed rt/lt or forward/back where does it say this in 70 guide?
So how I am supposed to know this stuff ? I can't even get a straight answer on what shade color carpet is right .
Sorry, but a bit frustrated.

[Mark D.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

So how I am supposed to know this stuff ?

One way would be, attend some judging meets and sign up to be an Interior observer judge.

[Mark D.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

Is the heal pad Al Knoch installs on his 1970 Corvette carpet correct for NCRS Top Flight ?

No, it is not.

[Mark E.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

I'm not a carpet expert, but I saw a thread about how one guy transferred the pad from his old carpet. The stitching would still be an issue though.

I haven't yet read through your thread on carpet color, but I can imagine the near impossible task of knowing the exact hue of the original carpet when new. Even carpets in original garage queens fade and discolor with time, so if you found a Bowtie or Benchmark car it would provide limited insight.

[Mark E.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

So how I am supposed to know this stuff ? I can't even get a straight answer on what shade color carpet is right. Sorry, but a bit frustrated.

Learning the nuances of these cars is what some of us consider fun. For me, it wouldn't be the same hobby if it was easy and definitive. I guess it helps if you're part masochist, very anal, and find the past times of normal people, like golf, boring.

Hang in there, and remember it's all about the journey.

[Mark E.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

Which is which?

[Bob B.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

Mark- For the most part I agree "enjoy the journey" if we are not enjoying the detail oriented project of putting a Top Flight car together we should be playing golf , gardening or something. I was heavy in to the shows and judging in the late 70s and 80s I got out because the level of knowledge of the judges was pathetic as compared to the time and expense put in to a first class restoration. I THINK NCRS has cured this for the most part, I am going to ask a lot of stupid questions as I get involved again so I don't make too many stupid mistakes. I have talked to a few NCRS OLD judges and they know their stuff. But it looks like we are a bit short on really good judges vs number of cars competing and number of judges it takes to judge a car. The NCRS members seem VERY helpful- very much appreciated.
I have tried golf and I just can't afford the number of balls I lose.

[Terry M.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

Bob

The term is "corn rows." I hope I didn't misspell it in your other thread. It makes sense to those of us who live in a state that grows a lot of corn. Maybe not so much for folks who have never been to the Midwest. I think "corn rolls" are something you eat, but I am not sure of that.

Mark gave you good advice about learning from Judging schools and on the judging floor from other judges. the more involved you are the more knowledge you will get, and the quicker you will get it. Or you could wait for the next 1970-72 TIM&JG and get the information then, but that might be a while yet.

I will offer one of my favorite expressions here again: "The only thing more expensive than a good education, is no education." And you can quote me on that.

[Bill L.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

Bob,

I am going to throw this out there. Romeo makes a carpet with a heel pad that better replicates the heel pad by a long shot. However, it is not identical to the originals. The IMCO logo seems to be a little too big for starters. I have not had a chance to compare an original right next to the Romeo heel pad. Perhaps others can chime in.

Consider yourself warned. If Romeo has the carpet in stock you may get it quickly. If not his customer service can leave a LOT to be desired based on the experience of others. Mine was a good experience with Romeo. Ask for a sample since you have bright blue. Mine was black. In terms of getting the correct blue, you may want to consider a custom dye to adjust the carpet color. Risky, yes. We have an excellent paint shop locally who will match just about anything including interior Dye.

Some would say the Romeo carpet might be a little too fuzzy. That very well may be true but it is still pretty nice carpet. I went out and looked at mine and it appears the corn rows go left to right as installed.

Frankly, if Al knock is still using that old heel pad design it is not very good at all.

There was quite a long thread where we thought was Al Knock would correct his heel pad. So far I think not. You may want to give him a call.

Bill

[Bob B.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

Knoch says their heal pad is perfect except not having the original trade mark, but then they said their light blue carpet was correct too.
I understand there is a lady member in northern Calif that is THE best judge at interiors, I am trying to locate her and get some input from her.
Now, lets just say "What if" somebody made a branding iron or some tool that left the impression of the original trade mark on a new AK heal pad since it just duplicating the way it was originally , it is not a forgery or anything bad like restamping or redating right ??????
Anybody (like a national judge) want to answer that one ?
THANKS, Bob

[Alan S.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

Hi Bob,
I believe you'll find that the original IMCO logo is raised above it's surrounding pad surface. It's not an imprint.
Regards,
Alan

[Bob B.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

THANKS I will look at their heal pad

[Don L.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

Knoch says their heal pad is perfect except not having the original trade mark, but then they said their light blue carpet was correct too.
I understand there is a lady member in northern Calif that is THE best judge at interiors, I am trying to locate her and get some input from her.
Now, lets just say "What if" somebody made a branding iron or some tool that left the impression of the original trade mark on a new AK heal pad since it just duplicating the way it was originally , it is not a forgery or anything bad like restamping or redating right ??????
Anybody (like a national judge) want to answer that one ?
THANKS, Bob

This is disappointing to read. Did you speak to someone at Al Knoch that told you this? The Knoch heel pad ain't even close to original. It's not the same material. It's not the same contour. It's not the same grain. It doesn't have the IMCO logo. They, like several others, make the pad from door panel vinyl, backed by convertible top window plastic to build it up. I have had numerous discussions, in person, with Al and his son, Elliott. Al told me that if I could get him originals , he'd re-tool to provide a better likeness. Thanks to some great NCRS and C.F. member support, I gave Knoch several known original pads from '69-'72 (and maybe later), to use as models to re-tool and reproduce a pad that's more like their reproduction rubber floor mats. For at least 3 years, they've been "working on it". I understand they lost a key member of their organization, but it's now been years. I think I need to call...

I'm not sure which interior judge you're searching for, but the person you may be looking for is fellow Carolina's Chapter member, Reba Whittington. Reba is a very knowledgeable interior judge. Perhaps Reba will jump in here...

[Alan S.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

Hi Bob,
I posted pictures of an original heel pad and the Al Knock pads earlier in this post but deleted them because there seemed to be little interest in comparing them.
So I'll post them again.
Regards,
Alan

Original heel pad.




Al Knock heel pad.



The elaborate construction of the ORIGINAL pad Don refers to.


Al Knock pad construction is unable to support neither the degree of detail nor the variations in the depth of the surfaces the original displays.

[Reba W.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

Hi, Don, maybe someone mistook NC for Northern California???

I will jump in with this: Words are often inadequate in trying to describe some of the nuances we talk about. I am presently working on the 1970-72 revision team, and you will not believe the drafts we sen back and forth trying to get a word description that the uninitiated can understand. We know exactly what it looks like, but trying to describe it is another issue.

That said, I think Alan's limited area photos show the graining differences with Knoch's heel pad and an original very well. The Romeo IMCo logo is so large that most of the time I can see it standing outside the car. Original carpet has to be scrutinized very closely to find--especially it it black.

I do like the plush quality of Romeo's custom carpet--maybe it is a little too good. I bought a set from Knoch for my 1972 last year and it is nowhere as good as it used to be. My car is a driver, so in it went, but I don't like the look and feel.

It has been my experience with most reproduction parts that if one vendor does one thing correct, it will be wrong in some other aspect. When it comes to carpet, there is no perfect one at this point. One other aspect to be concerned about is the shape and binding on the rear bulkhead. That is one I deduct for 95% of the time.