1970 Heel Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

[Mark E.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

Words are often inadequate in trying to describe some of the nuances we talk about. I am presently working on the 1970-72 revision team, and you will not believe the drafts we sen back and forth trying to get a word description that the uninitiated can understand. We know exactly what it looks like, but trying to describe it is another issue.

A bit off topic, but has NCRS considered using a LOT more photos in new JG editions? As they say, a picture is worth...

[Patrick H.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

A bit off topic, but has NCRS considered using a LOT more photos in new JG editions? As they say, a picture is worth...

Yes. I'd suggest the new one has 4x more photos so far.

Now if you can convince those in charge (Dave Brigham) that color in a manual is better than black & white (call Dave Brigham) then each photo will be worth more than the usual 1000 words. However, while we will attempt to optimize photos for black and white those on the team would suggest that color would work out much better (and let Dave Brigham know you agree).

I hope my message came through.

[Reba W.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

All the revised manuals have lots and lots of photos. If you notice, these are listed with photos on the cover, and they also cost more than the older style ones. Patrick is correct about photo quality. The 4th edition 1968-69 has photos but they were much better in color.

[Alan S.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

Hi Reba,
The IMCO logo on the original heel pad is 9/32" long.
The IMCO logo on the Romeo pad heel pad is 15/32" long.
Regards,
Alan

The Romeo pad.

[Alan S.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

Hi,
Here'a a couple of pictures of the corn 'rows' on my 71 std. 80/20 carpet.
This is the underside of the foot well area of the passenger's side carpet. The 3 holes for the'plugs' are at the top of the picture but unseen.
The rows run side to side as the carpet is placed in the car.
While this side of the carpet isn't seen, the direction of the rows does have an impact on the appearance of the side we see.
Regards,
Alan

[Reba W.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

No wonder I see it better. Your photo doesn't show it, but it is also higher from the pad--much more pronounced. I remember a meet many years ago in Georgia when Terry M and some others and I were looking for an original one.

[Shannon U.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

Bob, you will likely receive a minor deduction for originality on ANY replacement carpet from the most experienced interior judges. (Sorry for the upcoming highjacking Bob.) Side bar note... As Patrick and Reba articulated, COLOR, COLOR, COLOR and PHOTOS, PHOTOS, PHOTOS! For the many who have put countless hours into their "therapy" both in and for the NCRS, it would be a shame to see any additional TIMJG's produced in black and white or with low quality photographs.

[Bob B.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

Hi, Don, maybe someone mistook NC for Northern California???

I will jump in with this: Words are often inadequate in trying to describe some of the nuances we talk about. I am presently working on the 1970-72 revision team, and you will not believe the drafts we sen back and forth trying to get a word description that the uninitiated can understand. We know exactly what it looks like, but trying to describe it is another issue.

That said, I think Alan's limited area photos show the graining differences with Knoch's heel pad and an original very well. The Romeo IMCo logo is so large that most of the time I can see it standing outside the car. Original carpet has to be scrutinized very closely to find--especially it it black.

I do like the plush quality of Romeo's custom carpet--maybe it is a little too good. I bought a set from Knoch for my 1972 last year and it is nowhere as good as it used to be. My car is a driver, so in it went, but I don't like the look and feel.

It has been my experience with most reproduction parts that if one vendor does one thing correct, it will be wrong in some other aspect. When it comes to carpet, there is no perfect one at this point. One other aspect to be concerned about is the shape and binding on the rear bulkhead. That is one I deduct for 95% of the time.

REBA Did anyone ever end up getting 70 carpet and heel pad right ??? Thanks, Bob

[Reba W.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

You will have to ask someone who has done more judging than I in the past couple of years. Due to health issues, I have been inactive--didn't even make the past two conventions.

I seriously doubt that improvements have been done.

[Dick W.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

Yes. I'd suggest the new one has 4x more photos so far.

Now if you can convince those in charge (Dave Brigham) that color in a manual is better than black & white (call Dave Brigham) then each photo will be worth more than the usual 1000 words. However, while we will attempt to optimize photos for black and white those on the team would suggest that color would work out much better (and let Dave Brigham know you agree).

I hope my message came through.

The NCRS BOD voted to publish ALL manuals in color as they are updated

[Bill L.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

HI Bob,

I too have a 70. The Al Knoch heel pad is still incorrect at best. Someone with a 3D printer should start making correct heel pads. If the can make airplane parts with a 3D printer why not heel pads. I am sewing an original heel pad to the new carpet.

Make sure if you order from Al Knoch you are extremely specific in that 70 has no dimmer pad.

They will make the carpet with the corn rows going in the correct direction upon request. Make sure to put all requests in writing and follow up with a phone call to confirm. Have him make the driver's side a little bigger or the heel pad may not be in the correct location per the AIM.

You can source the latex backed carpet form Larry Dennis for the piece behind the seats if carpet is black. I am not sure they have other colors. The carpet is made at the same plant where Al Knock gets his so it is a perfect match to the 80/20 loop from Al Knoch. The latex is white and not black but that is easily remedied. I ordered extra binding from Al Knoch for the piece behind the seats. I then had the binding sewn to the latex backed carpet. I would also recommend using the latex backed carpet for the storage compartments.

Hope this helps.

Bill

THANKS I will look at their heal pad

[Bob B.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

Bill L Looks like none of the suppliers are improvong their product from several years ago. Is Knoch still the best on seat covers / 70 black vinyl and convertible tops ?
Thanks, Bob

[Patrick H.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

Your best bet on seat covers, especially black, is to either a) have new foam placed in your originals, or b) find originals in better shape.

Reproductions are easily spotted, no matter who makes them.

[Bill L.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

Patrick is right on. Not only are the reproduction seat cover easy to detect, they are VERY uncomfortable IMHO. Reproduction foam is terrible as well IMHO. I first installed the reproduction seat covers and foam and was very disappointed. They were hard as a rock compared to how comfortable the seats were with original seat covers and foam. Save your original foam and try and save or find some nice original seat covers then replace the scrim foam as Patrick suggests. I was able to find some original comfort weave material and had Al Knock make some seat covers using the correct material recently. The material was not cheap! The new correct seat covers and original foam will be installed this spring.

I have not yet installed the dated Al Knoch top I purchased so I have no experience. When you order the top make sure they know the top is for an NCRS restoration. I think either the hidem strip or windlace is different when ordering the NCRS type top. My top will hopefully be installed this spring.

Bill

Bill L Looks like none of the suppliers are improvong their product from several years ago. Is Knoch still the best on seat covers / 70 black vinyl and convertible tops ?
Thanks, Bob

[Don L.]

Re: 1970 Heal Pad Al Knoch correct? corn roll ?

Patrick is right on. Not only are the reproduction seat cover easy to detect, they are VERY uncomfortable IMHO. Reproduction foam is terrible as well IMHO. I first installed the reproduction seat covers and foam and was very disappointed. They were hard as a rock compared to how comfortable the seats were with original seat covers and foam. Save your original foam and try and save or find some nice original seat covers then replace the scrim foam as Patrick suggests. I was able to find some original comfort weave material and had Al Knock make some seat covers using the correct material recently. The material was not cheap! The new correct seat covers and original foam will be installed this spring.

I have not yet installed the dated Al Knoch top I purchased so I have no experience. When you order the top make sure they know the top is for an NCRS restoration. I think either the hidem strip or windlace is different when ordering the NCRS type top. My top will hopefully be installed this spring.

Bill

Bill, just a comment on your point about reproduction foam and seat covers.

I agree with you if the foam (assuming the molded foam here and not the scrim foam on the back side of the seat cover) and cover is still in good shape, however, if the foam is "dead", meaning that it's oxidized (collapsed and hardened) it's EXTREMELY uncomfortable. I just worked with a '73 owner that had original covers and molded foam that he could feel the frame hardware through the seat when he sat in it. This car's covers were bad too. The body cloth (vinyl) had split and hardened. The plus pad on the back side of the cover had deteriorated to the point where foam dust was coming through to the A surface of the seat, making a mess in the car. So, if you are fortunate enough to find original covers and foam for a restoration project, it'll just be a matter of time before they too fail. Of course just how long this will take depends on a lot.

"Breathability" of original GM Comfortweave fabric is superior in that it allows air to pass through, unlike the reproduction material. Cost is likely a factor in keeping repro houses from duplicating that. As for the molded foam, chemicals and materials today far surpass those from the vintage days. We just need someone to focus on getting density, hardness and hysteresis right. This is a tough task. Spending over 22 years in automotive interiors, I know that volume for the aftermarket is a killer. Molds are expensive and overhead at the big foam companies are high, thereby making the business difficult. All this leads the market to using small, low-tech shops, where they "pack" molds to fill them out. This causes improper density and hardness. The aftermarket business is too small for the really good houses to get in. Ask me how I know. I tried. Even being at the executive level, I was unable to make a business case.