Let's condence the Regionals timewise before it is too late. - NCRS Discussion Boards

Let's condence the Regionals timewise before it is too late.

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  • David K.
    Very Frequent User
    • September 30, 1979
    • 241

    #61
    Re: Let's condence the Regionals timewise before it is too late.

    you can pick up four points on Thursday if you do opts and judging school. Thursday is a good day for us lower point judges to pick up points, as some of the other judges are still flying in to the event.

    Comment

    • Patrick H.
      Beyond Control Poster
      • December 1, 1989
      • 11643

      #62
      Re: Let's condence the Regionals timewise before it is too late.

      Originally posted by Gary Chesnut (5895)
      Also, the maximum Judging Points that could be earned at a Regional event would be reduced to 4 Judging Points. Currently, it's 7 maximum.

      Gary
      ....
      Unless, of course, the car you travel 750 miles to judge doesn't show up.
      In that case your points available drops significantly.
      Vice-Chairman (West), Michigan Chapter NCRS
      71 "deer modified" coupe
      72 5-Star Bowtie / Duntov coupe. https://www.flickr.com/photos/124695...57649252735124
      2008 coupe
      Available stickers: Engine suffix code, exhaust tips & mufflers, shocks, AIR diverter valve broadcast code.

      Comment

      • Harry S.
        Extremely Frequent Poster
        • July 31, 2002
        • 5295

        #63
        Re: Let's condence the Regionals timewise before it is too late.

        Originally posted by Patrick Hulst (16386)
        Unless, of course, the car you travel 750 miles to judge doesn't show up.
        In that case your points available drops significantly.
        Patrick, in a situation like that should the judge get the points anyway? The $$$ per point goes way up when there is no-show!


        Comment

        • Edward M.
          Extremely Frequent Poster
          • November 1, 1985
          • 1916

          #64
          Re: Let's condence the Regionals timewise before it is too late.

          OK, since I am already in waist deep on this topic, let me jump into the deep end head first.

          I really think that we need a more equitable method for selecting judges. Currently, if I understand correctly, the team leader reviews the list of available judges based on the selections that judges make on the event registration for. This is the place where people select the top three areas that they would like to help judge in.

          The team leader then looks over the list of available judges, which includes the skill level of the judge, and makes his / her selection of judges.

          Seems like a good process: the judges get to list their top three areas to judge, the team lead gets to choose from a pool of qualified judges. What could be better than this?

          Lots of things.

          1. How many potential judges has NCRS LOST over the years because they don't ever get a chance to actually judge, and just gave up trying?
          2. How many judging teams over the years have looked pretty much the same from year to year?

          I could go on, but what is the point....

          I suggest that we really do need a more equitable method of judging team selection.

          How about something like the following:

          Team leads pair a Master level judge with a "up and coming" judge. Get away from the Two Master level judges as a team, unless their are no other options.

          Selection for judging is based first on the date your registration is received. The early bird gets the worm.

          Take all of the Master level judges that register, and sort them by registration date.
          Take all of the non-Master level judges that register, and sort them by registration date.

          Look at their choices for judging 1,2, and 3, and select ONE Master level, and ONE non-Master level, and pair them together. Again, earliest registration gets their first choice.

          Lets be honest about this, a lot of the judging team selection process now is based on the "good ole boy / buddy" system. All other things being equal, and team leads being human, they will select judges they know and like over judges they don't know. I know that the judges selected are absolutely qualified, but the selection process clearly is not equitable.

          We select cars for judging based on registration date; lets do the same thing for judges.

          Balance out the judging teams so that we are helping to train future judges.
          Give all of the judges an equal (or as equal as possible) opportunity to judge.
          If the number of judges is sufficient, use different teams for the different days.
          Maximize the opportunity for everyone that wants to judge to be able to do so.

          OK,now surfacing for air from the deep end....

          Comment

          • Patrick H.
            Beyond Control Poster
            • December 1, 1989
            • 11643

            #65
            Re: Let's condence the Regionals timewise before it is too late.

            Originally posted by Harry Sadlock (38513)
            Patrick, in a situation like that should the judge get the points anyway? The $$$ per point goes way up when there is no-show!
            I ended up being an OJ on Friday and Saturday, but each team only had 1 car.
            For Saturday, when the team of an almost 300 level and a 400+ have an almost 200 as their OJ, the judging goes fast!

            The 2 vacation days spent bother me more than the cost of the gas and hotel. That's time away from my family which I can't replace.
            However, the Joplin Holiday Inn has the distinction of being the worst hotel I've stayed at in over 10 years.

            Patrick
            Vice-Chairman (West), Michigan Chapter NCRS
            71 "deer modified" coupe
            72 5-Star Bowtie / Duntov coupe. https://www.flickr.com/photos/124695...57649252735124
            2008 coupe
            Available stickers: Engine suffix code, exhaust tips & mufflers, shocks, AIR diverter valve broadcast code.

            Comment

            • Steve M.
              Expired
              • June 25, 2013
              • 28

              #66
              Re: Let's condence the Regionals timewise before it is too late.

              Originally posted by Edward McComas (9316)
              We continue to insist that we MUST provide the most experienced judges available. Horsehockey! What we need to be doing is pairing these highly experienced judges with less experienced judges. Seriously, our judging manuals and processes are so refined that all you need to do to judge a car is be able to read and write.
              Lots of great points in both of your posts, Ed. But I take exception to your comment on the manuals being so refined that anyone can do it. I'm a newbie, but I have found that I can loiter about and listen to the master judges pontificate on points of minutiae that would take volumes to document. It makes me wonder what will happen to judging when these guys hang it up as all this undocumented stuff will go out the door with them.

              The JG's are excellent, but they are still woefully short of being all a person needs to properly judge.

              Comment

              • Edward M.
                Extremely Frequent Poster
                • November 1, 1985
                • 1916

                #67
                Re: Let's condence the Regionals timewise before it is too late.

                Originally posted by Steve Mitchell (58582)
                Lots of great points in both of your posts, Ed. But I take exception to your comment on the manuals being so refined that anyone can do it. I'm a newbie, but I have found that I can loiter about and listen to the master judges pontificate on points of minutiae that would take volumes to document. It makes me wonder what will happen to judging when these guys hang it up as all this undocumented stuff will go out the door with them.

                The JG's are excellent, but they are still woefully short of being all a person needs to properly judge.
                And that is why we pair a Master judge with someone that is learning. We have to capture that institutional knowledge while we can.

                Comment

                • Ray G.
                  Extremely Frequent Poster
                  • May 31, 1986
                  • 1189

                  #68
                  Re: Let's condence the Regionals timewise before it is too late.

                  Originally posted by Mark Swanson (6796)
                  I agree with the friends and cars part; however, for our chapter putting on the last Regional meet-this has caused a rift with some of our chapter members. Our members would work hard to put a Regional meet on, and in the past our members were allowed to participate in the judging process and gain knowledge on the cars and judging process. Now the fly boys come in, judge the cars, get the free shirts, get the free meals, get the judging points and congregate by themselves. The chapter members, several that are at the 100, 200 level, etc. are sitting on the sidelines. Nothing against Terry McM; however, you can only go to so many of these seminars. We are losing members in our chapter due to this present process. I applaud the other Regionals that are working well; however, as a long time passionate NCRS member, this present system is not working for several of our long time members. We did voice this concern to or Regional Rep to no avail.
                  Hello;
                  I agree with Mark.
                  I have also spoken with appropriate people about these situations.
                  A "Black Hat" judge friend has been told his services are not needed at Regional and National meets. Basically, don't bother showing up.
                  Respectfully.
                  Ray
                  And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance
                  I hope you dance


                  Comment

                  • James G.
                    Extremely Frequent Poster
                    • May 31, 1976
                    • 1556

                    #69
                    Re: Let's condence the Regionals timewise before it is too late.

                    Originally posted by Steve Mitchell (58582)
                    Lots of great points in both of your posts, Ed. But I take exception to your comment on the manuals being so refined that anyone can do it. I'm a newbie, but I have found that I can loiter about and listen to the master judges pontificate on points of minutiae that would take volumes to document. It makes me wonder what will happen to judging when these guys hang it up as all this undocumented stuff will go out the door with them.

                    The JG's are excellent, but they are still woefully short of being all a person needs to properly judge.
                    After 50 years in the hobby there is no substitute to taking a car apart and doing your own restoration. I have enjoyed photo by photo, page by page restoration stories on the Corvetteforum. com. SEE THIS AS AN EXAMPLE.
                    C1 & C2 Corvettes - 67 Project - Update - Been a while since I posted, had my head into the project and work. I finished the '49 Ford truck, showed it and won Best in Class in early May 2012 then was able to clean up the garage and get the Vette moved home from storage. I built a body cart and transferred the body in...


                    NCRS needs to expand their internet communication skills into the 21st century. ''THIS'' Tech site could be improved where many of these questions could be answered on line. Our REGIONAL events were originally designed so many people would not have to go to a NATIONAL Convention far away from their home. In the ''old days, we only had CHAPTER events. The FLORIDA REGIONAL started life as a CHAPTER event. SO CAL had great chapter events until the early 1990's, then no one wanted to work that hard to host the event. The history of people willing to work on the Board of Directors continued to be the same old people. Just like Washington, no one wanted to run for office, so the ''same ol people'' kept the ''same ol jobs''.

                    GET INVOLVED......JOIN YOUR LOCAL CHAPTER, and put on an event. Then you will see why things are like they are.
                    Over 80 Corvettes of fun ! Love Rochester Fuel Injection 57-65 cars. Love CORVETTE RACE CARS
                    Co-Founder REGISTRY OF CORVETTE RACE CARS.COM

                    Comment

                    • Ray G.
                      Extremely Frequent Poster
                      • May 31, 1986
                      • 1189

                      #70
                      Re: Let's condence the Regionals timewise before it is too late.

                      Hello;
                      Could we get a response from the people involved in making decisions regarding judges, how they are trained, and their talents used ??
                      Ray
                      And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance
                      I hope you dance


                      Comment

                      • Michael W.
                        Expired
                        • April 1, 1997
                        • 4290

                        #71
                        Re: Let's condence the Regionals timewise before it is too late.

                        Very interesting discussion, particularly from the stand point of those that just want their coveted blue ribbon as quickly and cheaply as possible vs. those that have no problem stepping forward to volunteer their own time and money to help judge these same cars.

                        Comment

                        • Joe C.
                          Expired
                          • August 31, 1999
                          • 4598

                          #72
                          Re: Let's condence the Regionals timewise before it is too late.

                          Originally posted by Michael Ward (29001)
                          Very interesting discussion, particularly from the stand point of those that just want their coveted blue ribbon as quickly and cheaply as possible vs. those that have no problem stepping forward to volunteer their own time and money to help judge these same cars.
                          Some people are points junkies and don't care much about blue ribbons.

                          Comment

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