Re: Deducts for non-original side exhaust on a C2
Hi all involved; I have read almost all of this and am in agreement with very much of it as I have been judged at a regional and national and got called both times so I have the sheet to show where the losses are 2013 and 2014. My car is an early 65 serial number 9038, February 5, 1965 birthday. Since the car is early it has the shields with the staples and with the rubber, singed and burned but they're still there. Interestingly enough my car has no radio therefore they did not take off for the missing radio groundstraps that would be on the undercar exahust normally if you had a radio. I can share the detailed results from the judging sheets, but I recall 178 points total. Both times the ops were 100% no losses! Since these two judging's meets I have gone to Frisco Texas regional 2016 where my car passed with full credit except for condition on certain items that are original and were scratched and burned or otherwise not nice condition. Even after all this I agreed that there should be major deductions for added side exhaust. After learning so much about these issues I feel that it would be very hard to add side exhaust properly, and a well-trained judge would be able to tell something that was flawed with the counterfeit process. At the same time I would also add that no one knows the beginning of side exhaust, so that also all side exhaust cars should be looked at closely with an open mind for history. And even cars that have under car exhaust for evidence of N-14 so that some type of time threshold can be determined. I have never had original paperwork, many people do not have original paperwork, but they may very well have an original car!! Are we to only judge cars that have original paperwork? then we need to change the whole hobby. Speak to Jack Humphrey or read his sad post about his uncles car. We need to encourage owners to maintain their car in the original way they found it, if they believe it to be original, until such time that history catches up with it. And we must temper this open attitude with the fact that most of these parts can be added to the car with nuts and bolts so it's very dangerous and we need to be very educated about the correct And minute details of certain areas of the car. you may see a car that has side exhaust but in the past someone did not like the noise and added mufflers and removed them later, now there are some signs that it was an under-car exhaust car so we need to be completely educated on every detail about the changes. I will give you one example my rear valance panel on my 65 is manila colored GM fiberglass, on the overlap it has a purple ink stamp date of November 23, 1964 this panel is bolted to the car at the bonded in strip piece with a November 11, 1964 date. It has been said, and is very true, that any piece can be stamped with a purple stamp and be bolted to a car. So now we need to get just as good with purple stamp dates as we are with engine stamp dates! it is just as important as the engine especially if it is an option and we have no proof of it on the trim tag. There are so many things that can be found to tie the whole car together as a side exhaust car, so we have to look at each judges field and talk to them as a group before making a final decision. David Harris
Hi all involved; I have read almost all of this and am in agreement with very much of it as I have been judged at a regional and national and got called both times so I have the sheet to show where the losses are 2013 and 2014. My car is an early 65 serial number 9038, February 5, 1965 birthday. Since the car is early it has the shields with the staples and with the rubber, singed and burned but they're still there. Interestingly enough my car has no radio therefore they did not take off for the missing radio groundstraps that would be on the undercar exahust normally if you had a radio. I can share the detailed results from the judging sheets, but I recall 178 points total. Both times the ops were 100% no losses! Since these two judging's meets I have gone to Frisco Texas regional 2016 where my car passed with full credit except for condition on certain items that are original and were scratched and burned or otherwise not nice condition. Even after all this I agreed that there should be major deductions for added side exhaust. After learning so much about these issues I feel that it would be very hard to add side exhaust properly, and a well-trained judge would be able to tell something that was flawed with the counterfeit process. At the same time I would also add that no one knows the beginning of side exhaust, so that also all side exhaust cars should be looked at closely with an open mind for history. And even cars that have under car exhaust for evidence of N-14 so that some type of time threshold can be determined. I have never had original paperwork, many people do not have original paperwork, but they may very well have an original car!! Are we to only judge cars that have original paperwork? then we need to change the whole hobby. Speak to Jack Humphrey or read his sad post about his uncles car. We need to encourage owners to maintain their car in the original way they found it, if they believe it to be original, until such time that history catches up with it. And we must temper this open attitude with the fact that most of these parts can be added to the car with nuts and bolts so it's very dangerous and we need to be very educated about the correct And minute details of certain areas of the car. you may see a car that has side exhaust but in the past someone did not like the noise and added mufflers and removed them later, now there are some signs that it was an under-car exhaust car so we need to be completely educated on every detail about the changes. I will give you one example my rear valance panel on my 65 is manila colored GM fiberglass, on the overlap it has a purple ink stamp date of November 23, 1964 this panel is bolted to the car at the bonded in strip piece with a November 11, 1964 date. It has been said, and is very true, that any piece can be stamped with a purple stamp and be bolted to a car. So now we need to get just as good with purple stamp dates as we are with engine stamp dates! it is just as important as the engine especially if it is an option and we have no proof of it on the trim tag. There are so many things that can be found to tie the whole car together as a side exhaust car, so we have to look at each judges field and talk to them as a group before making a final decision. David Harris
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