1967 Body Lift for Chassis & Frame Restoration

[Richard M.]

Re: 1967 Body Lift for Chassis & Frame Restoration

Rich, pics sent. Feel free to pits them, as I don't know how. Lol

Got it thanks much. I don't have those smaller screws with the integral conical washer, but I have some conical washers I can use with the screws I removed. I think it may be similar.

Here's Ara's photo that he sent me. He said the 2 with conical washers go inner. Others are the ones specified in the AIM.
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[Gene M.]

Re: 1967 Body Lift for Chassis & Frame Restoration

Rich,
You said "If I'm wrong and should not have removed it from the those 2 rear sides I can reapply blackout there." I think you are referring to the stowage area adjacent to the trail arms right? If so this fiberglass normally has some primer and or body finish over spray on it to some degree.

[Richard M.]

Re: 1967 Body Lift for Chassis & Frame Restoration

Rich,
You said "If I'm wrong and should not have removed it from the those 2 rear sides I can reapply blackout there." I think you are referring to the stowage area adjacent to the trail arms right? If so this fiberglass normally has some primer and or body finish over spray on it to some degree.

Gene, Yes the stowage area sides. Thanks for clarifying. It has heavy built up primer both sides. I guess those painters laid on plenty of primer on this car knowing it wa a Tuxedo version upcoming for a topcoat.

There was very heavy black there and I thought maybe the factory put it there but wasn't sure. I think a prior put much more on when they were dressing up the frame, so I took it off. I didn't touch the red primer, as it's so tough I'd need 3M SB and lacquer thinner to remove it anyways. Glad I didn't.

I was also talking to someone on the phone last night about it and he had several "non-black" cars and there was body color and then blackout there on those cars. This is a black car with absolutely no evidence of another color there so there may have been blackout then black body color on top of the primer which got a heavy built up look.

After I clean the areas better I'll re-dress those sides with some blackout to correct the appearance.

Thanks,
Rich

[Richard M.]

Re: 1967 Body Lift for Chassis & Frame Restoration

Details.......It's in the details. Lots of time lately checking out and researching little bits and pieces for reassembly. Amazing how much time it takes to figure out a few clips and screws and brackets, etc, etc.

Anyways, finally was able to yank the remaining carpets,clean out the cabin and get my oldest son and experienced "rivet-backer-upper" to help get the 50 or so rivets installed for the refinished and replated underbody bits. Him in the interior up high on the lift with me under the car with the air hammer tool with my home-made "squisher" attachment.

We had a talk about seatbelt reinforcement brackets here the other day that Joe Ray brought up. These are the replated (zinc) parts now back on. I used some 3M sealant around the studs and bolt holes before attachment.
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3M strip caulk around the big holes. I use a #10 screw and awl to help alignment and "pull-in" before the rivets get hit to help keep everything flush. On the outers, because the floor is double layered, the longest rivets just make it to get enough "squish" in one hole.
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Looking and functioning better. Also the black refinished seat/floor reinforcements. Remember that AO Smith bodies were green zinc chromate, not black like this St Louis job. The black floor reinforcements use 5 rivets each. The rivet holes near the seat track bolt locations were not drilled.
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Also had a loose "natural finish" seat track nut plate with broken rivets cleaned up and reinstalled. I cleaned the other 3 in place with a motorized wire brush and by hand along the edges. Removed years of greasy film, which ultimately saved them. Note the manufacturers mark on these originals. "S" over "S". Not sure who that was.
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Also another oddity on the right splash shield retainer on the floor. It was quite loose with a missing rivet when removed, and there was a really big hole on one rivet location. It was swiveling around. I'm thinking that may be a "adjustable" spot due to body/frame variations when the splash shields got installed. I loaded it up with strip caulk and reinstalled it the way I found it. The rivet head slides a bit and pivots. This may help me later for alignment of the splash shield. The driver side is fixed solid for the accelerator pedal.
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Now that the riveting is done the carpets are next for the body while it's still on a dolly.
This task will be outside under a tent as I don't like sniffing glue inside.

Rich

[Richard M.]

Re: JP Stevens, Dimmer Grommet, Horns

As work progressed today(I had some visitors so not much accomplished, Argh!)

I found some new discoveries.....

JP Stevens label stuck to the back of the old repro behind seat brace carpet. It must have been there and got stuck when they replaced them years ago. Dated 2 13 67. There's a unique inkstamp in a circle on it. I can make out ....."RUSH...." I think. May be a inspector's stamp. I'm not sure.....Anyone?

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Dimmer Grommet. Still Rubbery, but old, with a ID "KF" on the back. Is this TFP?
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Horns...
9000488 (left) 7C2 2nd week March '67
9000487 (right) 7B1 1st week Feb '67
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Tearing out carpet, you know ME...... I'll try to add pics later.

Here goes....I think the rears are original. The label I found at the top of this post actually belonged to the wheel house carpet but must have fallen off years ago. This when someone decided to install extra floor jute probably to reduce cabin heat. We discovered this car was in Florida in it's lifetime when I checked DMV online records some time ago.
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[Richard M.]

Re: Carpet Installation

It was discovered Saturday that all of the carpets in the car are reproductions. The labels were likely stuck to the mats, then when the prior replaced the carpets, the labels likely then stuck to the new carpets. I may keep the labels in the bag with the tank sticker remnants for posterity.

So due to this, all is being replaced. Today I started the cleanup process by removing the underlayment pieces, cleaning some old glue and fibers, and repairing areas that were loose. All of the underlayment is reusable. I had to carefully remove the back panel as it was loose in several areas. I wanted to re-adhere the jute to the mat after repairing the jute tears and "bubbled" areas.

First I used wide knives to pull the tar mat from the jute backing.
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After the mat was removed I used the wide knives to free the jute from the rear deck fiberglass.
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I then scraped the panel to remove any loose chunks.
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After vacuuming the entire rear deck section I prepared the jute and mat for repairs and readhesion. I used the 3M light duty adhesive to repair tears and bubbles in the jute. This was a bit tedious but I wanted to repair the original pieces rather than using the reproduction underlayment. After a cleanup of the back of the mat, I sprayed a liberal amount of heavy duty adhesive to both jute and the mat.
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After about 5 minutes both pieces were ready to be mated again after a 48 year wait. No more sagging rear panel carpet for this car.
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Since I'm still a bit agile, I decided to take some file photos of some of those areas never seen........i.e. "where the sun don't shine"

Under the rear deck is a hidden gutter for water runoff on convertibles. Here are some photos of the areas, looking up and from rear to front.

The tape is a white backed adhesive tape with a green vinyl covering. This holds the rear compartment courtesy light wire up so it won't sag down. Edit.....I don't know what I was thinking when i wrote this. This is far away from the lamp wire, and the 2 clips hold that up. I think I recall prior discussions about this and thought it was to hold the wire up when the carpet was being installed, but I really can't remember now. I wrote this late last night just before I hit the pillow so maybe I was dreaming or somthin'.

Maybe it was just installed by someone in the past, but it's a special tape, I'm unsure now after morning coffee what this is really all about. "Anyone? Beuler? Anyone?" I think I saw more allong the LH wheelhouse holding the rear harness and antenna cable down.
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Several photos of the sides and upper areas. Also some of the bonding glues used in the hinge area.
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The bracket is for the lamp socket. There is one clip shown for the wire, but there is another as you can see the tracing of it further left. I have that clip in storage.
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[Mike E.]

Re: JP Stevens, Dimmer Grommet, Horns

Richard,
Good move IMO on the carpet, especially since the carpet was not original anyway. Just the smell alone of the old jute backing is nasty. This way it will smell like a new car.

Mike

[Richard M.]

Re: 1967 Carpet Installation

Richard,
Good move IMO on the carpet, especially since the carpet was not original anyway. Just the smell alone of the old jute backing is nasty. This way it will smell like a new car.

Mike

Mike, Maybe you misunderstood or I confused it a little. This carpet is a vinyl backing with no jute backing, press molded in forms. Earlier years had foam backing and yes those can get nasty smelling in time if the foam gets wet.

I removed all carpet, but the underlayment still has it's jute backing, which I repaired in several places. It's good and dry and no odors at all. It really gets smelly when wet or damp, but these pieces are fine.

The new carpet will ultimately give this car a "brand new car" fragrance for sure.

Rich

[Richard M.]

Re: 1967 Body Lift for Chassis & Frame Restoration

I'm having some trouble with a annoying stumble when I blip the throttle from idle. I'm thinking it's a carburetor issue. I did a video of the conditions here in another side-thread with description for better reception......

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthread.php?111976-1967-427-Holley-2300C-Carburetor-issue&p=756527#post756527

[Richard M.]

Re: Radiator Support and Hood

Back on the body related work after getting the Holley's worked out last week. Other issues kept me away for a while too.

I needed to pull the radiator support to refinish it and since the hood needed to be removed again, that also needed some paint related work to correct some flaws. Flaws from atmospheric fallout.....i.e. damaging blotches from some cleaning chemicals and a pesky pine needle that leached it's pitch into the paint and left a crevice a few inches long smack dab in view.

This support appears to be a service replacement to me. If the frame had rust, how could the support not be rusted. There is no way this could be the original. Typically the lower portion horizontal rail gets hammered from road debris and begins to rust. Ironically though, the side shims for the support still had blackout on their edges, implying to me those were likely original.

Since the body is on a dolly, once the weight of the hood was gone I was able to remove the support and reinstall my side braces directly to the inner skirts. This protects the nose from drooping.
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Here are some reference photos of the lower valence and support rod bracket areas before removal. The L shaped brackets are mounted to the forward holes in the valence on BB cars, rear hole for SB cars. The brackets are held underneath by Phillips head screws and washers. These are installed before exterior paint. I don't have a photo of the 5/16" bolts holding the support to the bracket/rod, but IIRC I saw RBW Grade 5.
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After removal
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The right side has a cutout for BB cars at the valence depression for the front bumper support. I believe this is for lower radiator hose clearance.
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Some photos of the support before refinishing. Waffle pattern visible also.
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I decided to remove the square nuts before paint and clean them before replacing them.
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Lots of sanding and wire brushing to prep for paint.
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I used several coats of black to get good coverage.
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Next up was the hood. There were hundreds of blotches primarily in the black, which appear to be from some form of chemical. A fingernail could feel them.


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Here are a few shots of the blotches but hard to see. Up close by eye they were conspicuously apparent. They're those rounded/oval areas in these blurry photos. Hard to get a good focus on black.
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I wetsanded with 2000 grit. It got everything cleaned up. Along the way I found some checking and crows feet at the curveed edge on the right. This cleaned up well.
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After final buffing with 3M compund and foam pad.
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Now for the really hard part, the pine needle crevice. Jury is still out on this one. If not happy with it I'll have to repaint the black. The needle pine pitch actually left a ridge along the crevice. I was able to knock it down with the wetsanding, but inside the remaining area I could see gray primer when looking up close. Here I've shown it and another view inside the yellow oval.
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It looks like a crack but it isn't. Again, this is after wetsand/buff.
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Using a fine detail brush I carefully filled the crevace with acrylic laquer. I did this the other day and wanted a few days cure before I hit it again with wetsand and buff. I don't think it'll disappear but I wanted to try this first. I suspect I'll need to respray it but at least I'll have it built up again and entire hood smoothed out before I do. We'll see.
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Rich

[James G.]

Re: Radiator Support and Hood

As usual RICH, you have a real knack for detail. Now that I'm closer to Florida I just might try to make the January regional event if this car is going to be there on display. It would also be really fun to see you again and all my old Corvette friends one more time at a East Coast Event.

For those that don't know, Dee and I moved to Bandea, Texas October 12. We are building a new home on two acres we bought in 2007. I joined the Texas Chapter last night.

[Richard M.]

Re: Radiator Support and Hood

As usual RICH, you have a real knack for detail. Now that I'm closer to Florida I just might try to make the January regional event if this car is going to be there on display. It would also be really fun to see you again and all my old Corvette friends one more time at a East Coast Event.

For those that don't know, Dee and I moved to Bandea, Texas October 12. We are building a new home on two acres we bought in 2007. I joined the Texas Chapter last night.

Hi Jim, Thanks. And now you're a few hours closer for the phone so we can talk longer and i don't have to call you at midnight EST. Hope the move is going well and congrats on the new change.

I'll be there at the Winter Regional directing traffic, etc so I'm sure I'll take a long break to catch up.(I hope Tyler isn't listening here) We may be bringing this car over for Sportsman. Or I may take my '59 over in the trailer to use as my volunteer golf cart(it's white so nobody will notice).

Rich

[Richard M.]

Re: Pine Needle Pitch Crevice

Remember the pine needle crevice repair I did on the hood? Well......I succeeded .......but then I failed, miserably.

I let my brushed in touch-up lacquer cure for a week. I carefully wetsanded it and the area surrounding it. It totally blended in and disappeared. I looked and looked and couldn't find it. I was so happy.

Then I used a small rag with a little compound by hand with a small block to keep flat. It was gone! The crevice was gone! All I had to do now was get the machine buffer out and finish the big area that had the leftover sanding marks from the very light 2000 grit wetsanding surrounding the crevice.

Without even thinking about it, that was a big mistake. When I went over the filled and flattened crevice, the machine buffer pad proceeded to tear that week-cured paint right out of the crevice. It was too heavy a cut for that week-old paint. Lacquer cures from top down, so it must have still be a tad soft a few microns below the sanded surface. I wasn't too pleased with myself.

So I learned a lesson. I will refill the crevice again, lighter depth this time and give it another several days to cure and use a tiny 200 grit sanding block to knock it flat again. Then I will just buff it out carefully by hand using a small rubber micro-block.

So after that I took a break. Then I decided to remove the "427" emblems on that right side and sand and buff the defects/checked paint around them. Paint was pretty thick there from it's past refinishing allegedly 20 years ago. That sanded and buffed out fine. Paint checks all gone now. At least I did something right during that exercise.

I was so frustrated about the crevice afterward, I put the hood back in it's safe place and did something else to relax.

Rich

[Richard M.]

Re: Pine Needle Pitch Crevice

The hood repair is done. I waited several days for the new touch up to cure, lightly wetsanded with a mini-sanding block I fabricated, then hand buffed the area.

It came out good with just a very slight trace of repair. No more ravine that would catch a fingernail. I also machine buffed out the surrounding area and stayed very clear of the repair this time.

Filled in the crevice and let it sit for several days to properly cure from top down.
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Micro-sanding block to flatten the built-up touch up paint. I used a small square of a old bondo applicator and double stick tape to hold pieces of 2000 grit WD paper and more on top to stick to my work-finger. I changed paper a few times as it clogged up during the process.
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Knocked down the buld-up while dripping water on the area, then a slightly bigger area using a 1x2" pad to level off the area.
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Hand buffed the repair area then machined buffed. A final application of Zymol to knock out the final imperfections.

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Just a very subtle trace that looks like a few other areas on the body from little tiny scratches in this 20 year old lacquer. I'm satisfied that I won't have to respray the entire hood as this paint is still very nice all over the car.
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Rich

[Richard M.]

Re: Water Pump Rebuild Needed

Water Pump....

I removed the water pump to replace the flat backplate with the correct curved edge type.
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In the process I discovered some problems that needed to be corrected. This meant a complete rebuild. What I saw was unacceptable. This pump was acquired to replace the one that was on the engine mainly due to it's date. The old pump was dated 364 days before the car build date. The replacement pump now within the 6 month window. Even though the date cannot be seen once the pulley is installed it was important to get the date in line with the other pieces needed for a proper restoration.

After removing the pump and the incorrect flat backplate, I spun the impeller. I saw something which I missed before. I'm now glad had to replace the backplate as I would have missed this. While noticing the internal shaft seal moving when my eye glanced down into the top outlet bypass fitting, I saw something enlightening, and disturbing....

The seal was wobbling as I turned the pump. At first I though it was just a artifact of the rough edges of the rubber backer of the fixed position shaft seal. You know, like following someone in their car and you see the tire wobble, but it's really just a offset wheel cover. The seal definitely had a wobble, like a runout of brake rotors on a smaller scale. How could this be. The seal should be flat against the impeller. I had to investigate.

I also didn't like what else I noticed. The impeller blades seemed a bit far from the machined housing surface. Spec is 0.010" to 0.0135". I put a feeler gauge in between a few blades. I got around 0.019". Well, this added more fuel to the fire in my head now, so it came apart.

First I removed the fan hub using my Pitman arm puller. Normally I use my press and a bearing fixture, but the throat on my press isn't large enough to fit the pump housing. I then used a 7/8" deep socket to push the edge of the large bearing down and out the back of the pump. This also releases the seal from the housing. (Note: make sure the socket OD is not larger than the ID of the pump snout)

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I found the cause of the wobble. The shaft seal is the new type. It is integrated into the mating ceramic seal/housing assembly. The stainless steel ring had quite a bend on the edge. This caused slight pressure on one edge of the rubber seal to the hardened steel seal ring. This was the smokin' gun. I found it. Whoever rebuilt this pump was not careful when they installed the shaft seal. That bend must have been caused by a simple inadvertent incorrect installation procedure.

The photo below is after I straightened the collar with a needle nose pliers. The collar has a rubber seal under it. The bent edge of the flat top collar caused the wobble and misalignment of the seal assembly. At high RPM this pump, if left as it was, would have likely failed and leaked.
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For a better understanding of this new type seal arrangement and general water pump rebuild kits and design, see the attached document below in this post.

I corrected the seal problem and reassembled the pump. While in there I media cleaned the impeller, disk wheel sanded the shaft at the impeller end, and cleaned the internal pump housing. I gave the impeller a coat of high temp cast blast gray to protect it for the future as well.

Here are sequential photos of the reassembly process and completed pump after some new Chevy orange.

Support the back edges of the pump housing at the backplate mating surfaces on each side. Use 7/8" deep socket to install the bearing/shaft assembly. Never push on the shaft, only the outer edge of the bearing housing. Bearing housing must sit flush to the top of the pump snout.
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THen install the seal assembly with some sealant. I use Permatex. Support the shaft in a fixure, or if you have a helper thay can hold it steady. Tap the seal top(or use a press), using a deep socket. Get flush to the shaft, then switch to a open socket to drive the seal down. Get it down so the outer flange of the assembly compresses to the pump housing and just under the distance of the impeller depth, in this case apx 0.565".
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Using a lrage diameter socket, drive the outer flange of the seal housing into the pump housing.
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Installe the impeller by supporting the shaft opposite end in a press. Carefully press the impeller while checking blade to housing spaced tolerance.
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Support the shaft at the impeller end with a small diameter socket at the diameter of the shaft. DO NOT press on the pump housing or the impeller or you will have to do everything over again. You have ONE shot at this.
Press the fan hub using another socket until home. This shaft had a stop point that I used for reference when I took it apart. It's a edge created by the larger diameter bearing surface shaft.
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Complete and ready for reassembly to the engine. Correct backplate and recessed head bolts reinstalled. The two at the top can be seen. The others are flattened a bit from disassembly as someone ground the heads a bit, this to aid in clearing the timing chain cover.
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A complete photo group with seal details can be seen here.

http://s684.photobucket.com/user/richmz/library/1967%20Water%20Pump%20Rebuild

Also attached pump kit document below. Note this is for the small block pump but the same will apply with variations of dimensions on the big block pumps.

Rich