1967 Body Lift for Chassis & Frame Restoration

[Richard M.]

Re: 1967 Body Lift for Chassis & Frame Restoration

Heads back on and intake now fit properly. Time to add more items, but.........

Typical Engine Assembly issues.....Yesterday and last night saw every item to be installed had issues. Either poor fit or improper rebuilt items.

Before I started adding more items I decided to add more support to the engine on the stand. Just a few 2x4's under the front lip of the oil pan for additional safety, plus it stops rocking when torques applied.

P8240043.jpg

After chasing more threads with thread restorers, I added most of the little things. I added 4 qts of oil to the lifter valley before installing the intake, splashing the cam and down into the timing chain area and distributor area. A few hours later I see drips from the oil pan. Drain plug needed more tightening, after I tightened it before the oil went in. This is a new GM pan. The drain bolt isn't original type but the nylon washer seems too hard. I may need to revisit this.


Water pump installed and crank pulley. I took my reproduction WP pulley out and installed it on the hub temporarily with 4 bolts up tight. Wobbles and has about a 3/32" runout.... off it comes. I installed the original (also a reproduction)and it was much better, Will need to refinish that one and send the other one back. BTW, I had this same problem 4 years ago, and the supplier knows of this but does not check before shipping. Probably offshore now with no regard for quality.

I test fit the Delco fan clutch to the WP hub and there's a burr and won't fit the hub. Time to get out the Dremel and knock it down. I need to check if this is a original type. I think it is but a OTC replacement from 1968.
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Burrs
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Then the biggie. I've been at this for a hour already this morning. I installed the rear belt using the 3837810SV Quanta "Short Version" belt. Note they also make a "Long Version" 3837810LV, a tad longer for some combos or pullies, etc. Never from GM this way.
The SV was tight but fit. However, the water pump hub is too far out, by 1/8". Belt won't line up, nor will the alternator belt later. You know what this means, right?

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Water pump comes off and gets disassembled, again, rear cover removed and put in a press to push the hub down 1/8" while supporting the shaft at the rear.The rebuilder got the hub face to the mount face dimension wrong. It's my own fault I should've checked it for a test fit before but sometimes you just get a little sick and tired of checking every darn rebuilt part before installation and think it's going to be right.

Wrong!

Rich
ps sorry for venting it's too early for headaches.

pps. If anyone's interested in the WP hub fix process I can post pictures later.

[Joe R.]

Re: 1967 Body Lift for Chassis & Frame Restoration

Heads back on and intake now fit properly. Time to add more items, but.........

Typical Engine Assembly issues.....Yesterday and last night saw every item to be installed had issues. Either poor fit or improper rebuilt items.

Before I started adding more items I decided to add more support to the engine on the stand. Just a few 2x4's under the front lip of the oil pan for additional safety, plus it stops rocking when torques applied.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]63318[/ATTACH]

After chasing more threads with thread restorers, I added most of the little things. I added 4 qts of oil to the lifter valley before installing the intake, splashing the cam and down into the timing chain area and distributor area. A few hours later I see drips from the oil pan. Drain plug needed more tightening, after I tightened it before the oil went in. This is a new GM pan. The drain bolt isn't original type but the nylon washer seems too hard. I may need to revisit this.


Water pump installed and crank pulley. I took my reproduction WP pulley out and installed it on the hub temporarily with 4 bolts up tight. Wobbles and has about a 3/32" runout.... off it comes. I installed the original (also a reproduction)and it was much better, Will need to refinish that one and send the other one back. BTW, I had this same problem 4 years ago, and the supplier knows of this but does not check before shipping. Probably offshore now with no regard for quality.

I test fit the Delco fan clutch to the WP hub and there's a burr and won't fit the hub. Time to get out the Dremel and knock it down. I need to check if this is a original type. I think it is but a OTC replacement from 1968.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]63322[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]63323[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]63324[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]63325[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]63326[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]63327[/ATTACH]

Burrs
[ATTACH=CONFIG]63328[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]63329[/ATTACH]

Then the biggie. I've been at this for a hour already this morning. I installed the rear belt using the 3837810SV Quanta "Short Version" belt. Note they also make a "Long Version" 3837810LV, a tad longer for some combos or pullies, etc. Never from GM this way.
The SV was tight but fit. However, the water pump hub is too far out, by 1/8". Belt won't line up, nor will the alternator belt later. You know what this means, right?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]63319[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]63320[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]63321[/ATTACH]

Water pump comes off and gets disassembled, again, rear cover removed and put in a press to push the hub down 1/8" while supporting the shaft at the rear.The rebuilder got the hub face to the mount face dimension wrong. It's my own fault I should've checked it for a test fit before but sometimes you just get a little sick and tired of checking every darn rebuilt part before installation and think it's going to be right.

Wrong!

Rich
ps sorry for venting it's too early for headaches.

pps. If anyone's interested in the WP hub fix process I can post pictures later.

Hi Rich,

I'm sorry things aren't going so well in the early morning for you! I, for one, would be interested in seeing your water pump hub repair process.

Joe

[Richard M.]

Re: 1967 Body Lift for Chassis & Frame Restoration

Hi Rich,

I'm sorry things aren't going so well in the early morning for you! I, for one, would be interested in seeing your water pump hub repair process.

Joe

Here it is Joe,

After a quick breakfast, I fixed the hub. After removing the rear cover, use a backup socket on the shaft with same OD. Use a large 1/2" drive socket on the hub end. Set it in the press, put on your safety glasses and press the hub the required distance. This one needed .125". Note this shaft is 5/8" with a 1/2" stub. Later years used the 5/8" shaft, and it's better for the earlier years for strength. I believe all BB rebuild kits today have the bigger sized shaft.

I also added a few pics of test fitting the fan clutch, which appears to be bad because it's got over 1/8" of play at the tips of the blades. Off we go to order a replacement. Since it's not a Eaton or Schwitzer not worth sending out for rebuild for this car. It may apply to later years so I'll hang onto it for now.


Setup
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After pressing, test fit, then reinstall rear cover and reinstall on engine. All fixed. Perfect belt alignment.
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Dremel'd the clutch hub ridges and burrs and test fit. Notice the small stud I used as a install guide. This is especially helpful on a completed car so you don't drop the fan/clutch assy on the radiator. It's heavy. Cut a short stud and thread by hand into one hub hole. Attach the items to the hub and the one stud to align, thread 3 bolts in by hand(note should be Grade 8 not the Grade 5's that were on this one). Snug those up then replace the stud with the 4th and tighten all to spec. Saves back pain.
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Off to NAPA for more parts.

Rich

[Joe R.]

Re: 1967 Body Lift for Chassis & Frame Restoration

Rich,

Thanks for the write up! I'm glad to see you're making forward progress again!!!

Joe

[Donald O.]

Re: 1967 Body Lift for Chassis & Frame Restoration

Hi Rich,

I'm sorry things aren't going so well in the early morning for you! I, for one, would be interested in seeing your water pump hub repair process.

Joe

As would I.

Dang. Should of read all the posts.

[Richard M.]

Re: 1967 Body Lift for Chassis & Frame Restoration

Before I leave for Carlisle this morning I did a quick media blast of these previously sandblasted manifolds prior to POR 15 Hi-Temp treatment. They've been cool and comfortable in my C60 equipped shop but i wanted a quick dry out and blast before they went outside for paint.

I used my favorite detail sprayer for messy "hardly-any-cleanup". From the cool AC shop quickly outside for each one to coat the fluid on them before humidity set in early this morning.

A few shots. It'll dry to a lighter shade as I see the first one i did already lightening up. They'll be well cured in a few days.

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Note this is NOT the correct original appearance as they were painted engine orange with everything else. They'll just look better after a few thousand miles. Remember, this car is a driver that MIGHT venture out onto the judging field some day, and will in fact take deductions for this treatment if so. Known strategic decision as usual.

Later,
Rich
PS Thanks Frank Dreano for turning me on to this product. I had a bad "goldi-locks" experience with the VHT Hi Temp product awhile ago.

[Joe R.]

Re: 1967 Body Lift for Chassis & Frame Restoration

Before I leave for Carlisle this morning I did a quick media blast of these previously sandblasted manifolds prior to POR 15 Hi-Temp treatment. They've been cool and comfortable in my C60 equipped shop but i wanted a quick dry out and blast before they went outside for paint.

I used my favorite detail sprayer for messy "hardly-any-cleanup". From the cool AC shop quickly outside for each one to coat the fluid on them before humidity set in early this morning.

A few shots. It'll dry to a lighter shade as I see the first one i did already lightening up. They'll be well cured in a few days.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]63364[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]63365[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]63366[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]63367[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]63368[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]63369[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]63370[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]63371[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]63372[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]63373[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]63374[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]63375[/ATTACH]

Note this is NOT the correct original appearance as they were painted engine orange with everything else. They'll just look better after a few thousand miles. Remember, this car is a driver that MIGHT venture out onto the judging field some day, and will in fact take deductions for this treatment if so. Known strategic decision as usual.

Later,
Rich
PS Thanks Frank Dreano for turning me on to this product. I had a bad "goldi-locks" experience with the VHT Hi Temp product awhile ago.

Rich,

Those are some fine looking exhaust manifolds! I had Jerry MacNeish work his magic with the aluminum coating over the top of mine. Then I painted them with the Cast Blast paint (supposed to look like bare cast iron) he supplied. You're right, they should be orange. But I think I will go your route and leave them grey. They look so much better that way!!!

Joe

[John H.]

Re: 1967 Body Lift for Chassis & Frame Restoration

More assembly today. A question.....

[ATTACH=CONFIG]63306[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]63307[/ATTACH]
The threaded ball socket for the clutch cross shaft mounted to the block. JG doesn't specify painted or natural steel. Was it painted at engine assembly with the other items? I'm assuming it was on a Tonawanda built JE coded engine as it was only available with manual transmission.

Rich

Rich -

That engine-side cross-shaft ball stud was installed at St. Louis, and shouldn't show any paint - it should also have a fat square-section O-ring seal in the groove adjacent to the ball that was part of the stud as received. See the '67 A.I.M., UPC 7, sheet C1, item #12.

[Richard M.]

Re: 1967 Body Lift for Chassis & Frame Restoration

Rich -

That engine-side cross-shaft ball stud was installed at St. Louis, and shouldn't show any paint - it should also have a fat square-section O-ring seal in the groove adjacent to the ball that was part of the stud as received. See the '67 A.I.M., UPC 7, sheet C1, item #12.

Thanks John, As usual, if I have a 50/50 chance, it's wrong. I have a kit with the square rubber o-ring so I'm all set with that item. Paint will now be removed from the ball stud.

I got back late from up north last night, with no access since I left Wednesday or I'd have replied sooner. I deliberately left ALL internet access home for the Carlisle trip.

Rich

[Richard M.]

Re: 1967 Body Lift for Chassis & Frame Restoration

I got back from Carlisle, actually Islip, NY, late last night. I stayed at a friend's house Saturday night when we got back from Carlisle.

It was quite a lightning show from 30,000 feet on the flight back down. Remnants of the Erika storm were quite impressive from up there. The cloud formations were amazing.

==

Engine is now back in the chassis. After assembling more items and fixing some issues with fitting some parts, it's all set and back home in the cradle.

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Before putting it all together for installation, I drained the Trans fluid and installed a new rear seal. The yoke is also being replaced due to several grooves which has been leaking past the seal for a while. The evidence was all of the leaking oil under the transmission tunnel and underbody as shown in previous notations. I took a few macro shots of the grooves. They're very deep.

Old seal and yoke. New yoke next to the old one.
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I had 2 different seals, and chose the type with the lip to retain it at the proper depth when installed flush to the tailshaft. Seal on left has the lip.
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Good to the last drop, draining the fluid this way while eating lunch.
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Cleaned up the '621 bellhousing, scuffed up the external area.....
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...then repainted.
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BTW, I brought that defective wobbly fan pulley with me to Carlisle last week and returned it for refund to my vendor. Here's the one that was on the engine originally, now cleaned up and repainted. I'll add the fan clutch after engine break-in and before body drop. Radiator will go in after body drop.
P8310019.jpg

Pictures of the replacement fan clutch. The Delco unit with it's loose bearing was for a small block as the shaft is a bit longer, IIRC. It's a good thing we found the bad fan clutch now and not during a high rpm launch. Could've been nasty.
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After I checked the oil passages and oil plugs, I topped off 2 more quarts of oil poured into the heads to get a total of 6. I then setup my oil priming tool, connected my oil gauge, and primed the oil system. I got 60 PSI right away when the drill spun up. Lots of dripping out of the pushrods.
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Picked the engine off of the rotating stand and installed the flywheel and clutch. I use LUK clutches. I used 2 long 1/2"-13 studs at the top holes of the trans mount in the bellhousing to aid alignment. Trans slipped right in with a extra hand from my helper. New motor mounts fit perfectly over the frame mounts. I pre-test fitted everything earlier.
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Here are the exhaust manifolds after a few days cure time while I was away. They'll be installed now after engine installation along with the side exhaust system to the chassis.
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Add the 3 carburetors and starter and other necessary items for running and wiring a temporary harness and temporary TI installation, add some REC 90 fuel to the tank and the battery, then run the engine up for break-in.

All hopefully very soon.

Rich

[Richard M.]

Re: 1967 Body Lift for Chassis & Frame Restoration

Transmission Shim?

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthread.php?111628-1967-Transmission-Mount-Shim&p=753168#post753168

[Gary R.]

Re: 1967 Body Lift for Chassis & Frame Restoration

All looks great, too bad we didn't touch base last weekend at Carlisle.

[Richard M.]

Re: 1967 Body Lift for Chassis & Frame Restoration

Thanks Gary, me too. I missed so many folks I wanted to meet. Tom Hoyer and I hooked up and talked '58's for a while. John Schell and I spoke for a while about Power Tops. He's got a new Valve Repair process he showed me, nice. Met with my vendor I bought the cylinder heads from and we settled up on reimbursing me for repairs. Honorable guy.

Before I knew it it was all over.

Had a great ride Saturday to LI with my friend Tom, and saw his awesome shop for the first time. His dad restored many cars in the 50's and beyond. Many Classics like Auburns, Cords, Duesenbergs, etc. Tom's been doing Corvettes for 45+ years too.

Rich

[Richard M.]

Re: 1967 Body Lift for Chassis & Frame Restoration

Engine mostly assembled today.

This 1108430 starter(case) is for a '74 to '75 350 with Auto. A 11 7 must be 1977. I'm not sure if internally correct so I have a big block starter to replace it. It did have some intermittent issues in the past.
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The greasy transmission mounts were refinished and original hardware used where possible. I used new big washers under the mount, natural steel with a shot of satin clear for a rust-free future. I hate rusty chassis parts.
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I found my cross shaft seal kit and it included a new ball socket with the square profile o-ring so I opted to use the new one. Installed new engine mounts and the ground strap. Note head orientation of the long bolts, left front-to-back, right back-to-front.
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Installed the carburetors after re-installing the studs to the intake. 2 5/16-18 bolts are used just under the fuel inlets on center and rear carb. I reused the originals, 3 lines, grade 5, as the bolt kit I got had "JHC" on the 2 bolts. What's that? Japan Hardware Corp?

The three Holly carburetors. Fuel lines are tricky to get tight. It's very important to hold the carb inlet fitting while snugging up the flared fittings. Also hold the brass Tees for those lines.
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A few pictures shown of the secondary interconnect linkage for reference.
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Divorced choke and linkage. To set the choke fast idle, insert a small flat balded screwdriver in that slot next to the green cam and twist to increase or decrease fast idle setting.
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Here is a photo sequence of the method I use to convert from ported to full-time manifold vacuum. First order of business is to change the vacuum advance.

I removed the MS201 vacuum advance can from the distributor after a test. It starts to move at 14" of vacuum and nearly all in at 18" of vacuum. I think it's defective. I could see that it does not even go to maximum travel on the bench. I tried to find a VC1810(B28) can everywhere but no longer available. I have a VC1765 (B26) and hope it will be sufficient. It starts at 6" and all in at 12".

Ported fitting on center carb and pipe from distributor vacuum advance hose.
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I cut the choke pull hose off hose in half. This goes to manifold vacuum under the center carb. I add a tee to the split and run a new hose to the pipe for the advance can. I then plug the ported fitting on the side of the center carb. Only those in the "know" will know. We have discussed other ways to do this conversion by modifying the center carb but I opted not to.
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It's getting heavier. It was good to see those F41 front spring coils moving closer together as I installed more heavy parts. It hasn't worn it's hat in a while too.
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This is the small test setup for running engine on the chassis. I just bypass the ballast for this car. I'll add the wiring in the morning, setup the sidepipes, get some fuel, and hopefully tomorrow is startup day. Unfortunately pretty hot day tomorrow. I'll definitely have it under my 10x20 tent to be in the shade.
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Rich

[Richard M.]

Re: 1967 Body Lift for Chassis & Frame Restoration

Happy to report I got the engine running and break-in completed late this afternoon. Ran strong at 2000 RPM for 25 minutes, 70 PSI on the oil gauge. I used a direct inlet connection to the water pump using supply water. This way I wouldn't have to worry about radiator connections and cooling the engine in 92* Florida heat and humidity today. This was the first time I ran a new engine after a rebuild this way, and I'm quite happy I did it this way.

Here's the setup and a few photos. I used the original TI Amp secured to the test stand with a extra ground to the engine, and simply wired the circuit as it is normally. Ign to White, Sol from the starter button to TI harness Pink(12V @ Crank to the TI Amp) and SOL on the Starter. A toggle switch on the test panel is used for Ign on/off. The battery was connected directly to the Starter, but I used a circuit breaker for the main feed to the test stand to protect the wiring in case of any unforeseen issues.

The test setup...
You can see the PVC plumbing for a garden hose at the lower rad hose end. I used a upper hose off of the thermostat housing into a large long hose placed away from the scene. Worked great. I reduced pressure a bit while monitoring temp with my IR gun, and got it stable at about 160*. I did not use a thermostat, but had the skeleton of one in there with the plug removed. Main concern was breaking in and not temperature. I may connect a radiator to it and get a feel for it's overall running temp with the fan attached.
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While running, the oil pressure gauge was happy....
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After the run back at rest in the garage.
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Video clip here. A bit boring but you can see it's alive again! Camera microphone does no justice to the sound of those sidepipes. My ears are still ringing tonight.

https://youtu.be/KkAIj4HdObw

A good day overall.

edit 1...There is a slight miss going on in the video as you can hear. I didn't want to stop and do a full diagnosis as it was running well enough for the task. I'm suspecting either a carb issue or a plug or wire intermittent issue. I'm pulling the plugs for a telltale of what it may be.

edit 2..I pulled all of the plugs this morning and in the process, the #1 plug wire wasn't fully inserted and locked when I yanked them off. The #1 plug is a tad wet as can be seen below, and 3, 5 & 7 dry in comparison. I'm betting when I did a final look before startup, I checked my timing to find #1 with the plug out and view of the rotor with respect to my 5* advanced balancer mark, in my haste I thought I locked the wire, but obviously not. I'll run it up again later this morning and see if that solves the miss.

1-3-5-7
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Rich