Exhaust system blackout

[Tony S.]

Re: Exhaust system blackout

Thanks Bob for your positive contributions. If you do an archive search, you'll see that I'm a Michael Hanson supporter. He brings alot of real-life experiences from the plant to the table. I don't understand the push-back against recognizing chassis blackout. It is a realty for some model years. I'm on the 1965 national judging team and enjoy that alot. I've judged sparingly on the '63/'64 team. When I did, Gary Bennett was my judging partner. Gary is a very knowledgeable '63 guy. I remember talking with Gary about chassis blackout. I won't speak for Gary, but as I recall, Gary seemed very open to seeing chassis blackout. Because I'm not on the '63/'64 team, I don't want to speak to those team issues. I will say that I am very impressed with our new national judging chairman Dave Brigham. He is a very fair minded guy and open to discussions. I'm also favorably impressed with our new president Dick Capello. Dick is a real "boots on the ground" kind of leader. He attends the judging schools and is right there among the cars during judging.

Keep spreading the good word Bob!

Best,
Tony

[Gary C.]

Re: Exhaust system blackout

Gentlemen,

Please, let's keep this thread constructive. Remember no disparagement is condoned.

Gary
....

[Bob J.]

Re: Exhaust system blackout

Gentlemen,

Please, let's keep this thread constructive. Remember no disparagement is condoned.

Gary
....

Hi Gary,
if I was the guilty party please accept my apology.
Could you answer a question for us?
How does a team leader get that position, and who in the club decides when to replace one?
Thanks for allowing this, Bob Jorjorian

[Gary C.]

Re: Exhaust system blackout

that's the National Judging Chairman's responsibility

[Tracy C.]

Re: Exhaust system blackout

Judging manual issues need to be addressed by the National Judging Chairman and his/her side of the organization.The NCRS President shouldn’t be brought into it unless all other means to resolve have flopped.

The issue on 63/4 chassis blackout has surfaced every year for the last 5 or 6 that I can remember. Because the 63/4 team lead doesn’t participate on the TDB, we need to first make sure he has the evidence discussed here. It appears Bob Young’s team has presented this to him before, so we need to take the matter to our new National Judging Chairman.

Some of you will remember discussion on usage of the 326 and 175 water pump usage on 63/4s last year. When the evidence was presented to Roy Sinor, he made a declaration right here on the technical discussion board that usage of the 326 water pump would come out of the next revision of 63/4 JG and the 175 would also be considered correct on later 63s and the 64s. Hopefully that promise was not lost when Roy left the office and David B.came onboard. Link to this thread follows.

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthread.php?99165-Question-on-326-Pump-Blueprint&p=655056#post655056

Concerning chassis blackout, I approached the 63/4 team lead on this issue during the 2013 judging retreat. Revision 6 of the JG had just come out and the “allowance’ of chassis blackout had been taken out of the manual. I wanted to know if this was an inadvertent miss or an intentional act. His response was that it was an intentional removal and not a mistake. At the time of our discussion, we were standing next to a beautiful Bowtie Daytona Blue 64 coupe that was used in the school and once owner by "the real deal" John Ballard.. I asked our 63/4 team lead if he had looked at the underside of that 64. He said “no I haven’t” and from his body language and tone, it was clear our discussion on this topic was over.

Factory blackout was so evident on that 64 Bowtie coupe that I’m quite sure even Stevie Wonder could have detected it.

I’ve also stood under a red 63 Bowtie candidate at the National Meet in Novi Michigan a year or two back. Gene Manno was busy pointing out the remaining blackout on that car during a judging school. Ed Foss brought a beautiful black 64 bowtie candidate coupe to the last regional meet held in Joplin. Again, blackout was all under that car. Can someone tell me why we are still debating this?

I like our 63/4 team lead because he is a good sport and fun to pick on. However, I have to say that it is ridiculous that personal vendettas, politics, or outright stubbornness stand in the way of creating a judging guide that promotes correct restorations of our 63 and 64s. Just because some do not want to spray black goo on their fresh restoration doesn’t mean that none of us do. If you have to ask “why do that” then you are in the wrong organization.

Granted, we have some original owners who do not remember the blackout. We’ve seen original cars that obviously do have blackout. I truly believe both possibilities exist. The blackout operation was done by humans who were pressed by production schedules and hardnose supervision to get the job done and out the door. We need to get the“Possibility” for the blackout back in the manual. I like the added wording in revision 6 for blackout on the front suspension. We just need similar wording for the rear suspension.

Someone needs to send the last revision package assembled by Bob Young’s team to the National Judging Chairman David B. and let us see where it goes this time. And for the love of lolipops, ask him if he will see where the new 4657 fuel pump description in revision 6 came from. I've never seen such a critter.

tc

[Richard L.]

Re: Exhaust system blackout

Gentlemen,

Please, let's keep this thread constructive. Remember no disparagement is condoned.

Gary
....

Gary...

Every avenue that has been presented by NCRS to discuss ways to address/fix/correct the current 63-64 Judging Manual has been met by the NCRS membership...

Proof has been provided by experts in the manner requested, but the results are the same and have not gotten any better... In fact, the content of the current 63-64 Judging Manual has gone in the opposite direction...

I've helped save two mid-years and have used the '65 and the '67 Judging Manuals as the design basis (guideline) for those restoration efforts and have gone through the judging processes and received TF and BG awards on both cars... Those are great Judging Manuals... NCRS hands down publishes the best technical information available on the restoration of the cars that we are so passionate about... Yet the one JG that we have repeatedly asked for help on has not gained any traction within the organization where it can live up to the standardization level of the other Judging Manuals...

It's time the membership asks (again) what can be done to fix this document..???

The question has been asked repeatedly for someone in an NCRS Management position to please address this issue... We've swept this under the rug long enough...

So, once again, would someone from NCRS Management please address this issue and let us know what else we can do or can be done to further promote the accurate restorations of the 63-64 model years with respect to having an accurate Judging Manual..???

Thank You...

Rick