My Vin Plate and Frame Number don't match?

[Hugh S.]

I'm new to the NCRS, I just brought a sweet, 59 Corvette!! Hey!! The frame number indicates J59S101144 a 59 Corvette, produced on or about 17 Novernber 1958. The Tranny and Engine also indicate a 59. Traction Bars, Tray under the grab rail inside, Seat covers are 59, that I know of are present The problem I have, I guess I'm screwed from judging the car? The title and the Vin Plate on the diver side door frame indicates a early 1958 VIN Plate number. I don't know what happened, I assume the The plate was removed during restrortion/painting is the story. The VIN was reattached with the wrong styles screws, but the Tag its self does appear to be authentic. I'm satisied the car is a 1959 but the drivers side door Vin plate says otherwise? Am I, forever precluded of Judging my Corvette at NCRS meets? What can I do ?? How in the Heck do I ( can I) get the Title changed??

Thanks in Advance,

Hugh

[William C.]

Re: My Vin Plate and Frame Number don't match?

58 cars were significantly different from '59 cars, provision for trunk strips, differences in door panels and dash, and more, first question, what does the car really look like is by scrutinizing all parts and pieces? Bought from an individual or dealer? If dealer there may be some recourse depending on the laws of your state. First question though is what does the sum of the parts say it is? More importantly, what is it TITLED as?

[Jack H.]

Re: My Vin Plate and Frame Number don't match?

Not to be too alarming, but NCRS judging would be the least of my concerns with this car. I've heard of cars being confiscated or re-VIN'd with state tags for these types of inconsistencies. I'd try to get some real answers about this car ASAP as William suggests, including consulting with some experts. Contacting come members of your local NCRS chapter would seem like a good first step.

[Hugh S.]

Re: My Vin Plate and Frame Number don't match?

William,
Thank You for your time and your reply to my question!

I have looked over the Car and it does seem to me to be a 1959, No Louvers on Hood, No chrome strips on trunk lid nor evidence that strips were taken off and holes in trunk lid filledand repainted. . Frame number is a 1959, J59S101144, Tranny and engine all point to be a 1959 production car. Traction bars on rear. Concave lens on the Dash instruments, tray under the grad rail on passenger side.
Yet the VIN Plate, on the driver side door jam is a 1958 J58S1000010. It had been removed during restoration/painting and put back on 2 smaller fasterner, looks like small dark colored rivets and not with #8 Pan head phillips screws. However, The title appears to be a 1958, ( althought I haven't seen the title yet it is in Transit from Canada to Auctions America) the VIN plate, on driver side is a 1958. Do you think Its possible to get the Title changed to a 1959? Something is wrong? VIN plate title, or maybe both? I can contact the prior owner who lives in Canada he is a very big car collector ? Do you have any suggestions?

Best Regards,
Hugh

[Patrick H.]

Re: My Vin Plate and Frame Number don't match?

Do you have any suggestions?

Best Regards,
Hugh

I'd be contacting Auctions America in less time that it takes to type this sentence, assuming they were the seller.
The onus is on them to make it right and get you a correctly titled/numbered car or to give you your money back. For you to mess with it is foolishness.

[Michael W.]

Re: My Vin Plate and Frame Number don't match?

I can contact the prior owner who lives in Canada he is a very big car collector ? Do you have any suggestions?

Best Regards,
Hugh

I'd contact the seller for an explanation and putting payment for the car on hold.

[William C.]

Re: My Vin Plate and Frame Number don't match?

Most states require an inspection of an out of state car to title it, and Auction houses are supposed to verify this before a sale. I would contact The seller and call the whole deal off before some legal entity in Canada or the US removes the car from your possession.

[Joe L.]

Re: My Vin Plate and Frame Number don't match?

William,
Thank You for your time and your reply to my question!

I have looked over the Car and it does seem to me to be a 1959, No Louvers on Hood, No chrome strips on trunk lid nor evidence that strips were taken off and holes in trunk lid filledand repainted. . Frame number is a 1959, J59S101144, Tranny and engine all point to be a 1959 production car. Traction bars on rear. Concave lens on the Dash instruments, tray under the grad rail on passenger side.
Yet the VIN Plate, on the driver side door jam is a 1958 J58S1000010. It had been removed during restoration/painting and put back on 2 smaller fasterner, looks like small dark colored rivets and not with #8 Pan head phillips screws. However, The title appears to be a 1958, ( althought I haven't seen the title yet it is in Transit from Canada to Auctions America) the VIN plate, on driver side is a 1958. Do you think Its possible to get the Title changed to a 1959? Something is wrong? VIN plate title, or maybe both? I can contact the prior owner who lives in Canada he is a very big car collector ? Do you have any suggestions?

Best Regards,
Hugh

Hugh------


I agree with the others; you have a BIG problem here. If the car was, basically, a 1958 with a 1959 frame VIN, it could be that the frame under the original car was replaced with a 1959 frame. Even then, you'd really need a bill of sale to be able to demonstrate that the frame was legitimate.

However, the above is NOT what you apparently have. What you have is, basically, a 1959 Corvette with a 1958 VIN plate. That's a REAL problem. The vast majority of cars with similar circumstances represent STOLEN CARS that were "legitimized" with a "clean" VIN. Here's how this usually happens and applied to your situation: someone has a 1958 Corvette that gets wrecked without insurance or they buy a wrecked 1958 Corvette. So, they have a legitimate title and paperwork but they have no usable car. Then, they go out and steal someone's similar Corvette (in this case a 1959). They remove the VIN tag from the stolen car and replace it with the VIN plate from the wrecked 1958 they own. Now, the wrecked 1958 Corvette is "reborn" as the stolen 1959 Corvette.

This whole scenario could have occurred many years ago and the car could have changed hands several times in the interim. If no one checks the frame VIN derivative (and folks rarely do), the identity switch is not discovered. Usually, this sort of thing gets discovered when the discrepancy in model years raises questions, exactly as it did in your case. If the owner of the wrecked 1958 had just stolen another 1958 to replace it with it might never get discovered (unless someone checked the frame VIN).

In my opinion, this car is a stolen car whether or not the 1959 VIN found on the frame is in a stolen vehicle database. Believe me, there are a LOT more of this type of car out there than folks think. That's why I always recommend that folks check frame VIN's before buying a car. If they don't match the VIN plate AND the vehicle registration documents and the seller can't come up with a bill of sale for the frame, I wouldn't touch the car with a 10 foot pole.

[Hugh S.]

Re: My Vin Plate and Frame Number don't match?

I'd be contacting Auctions America in less time that it takes to type this sentence, assuming they were the seller.
The onus is on them to make it right and get you a correctly titled/numbered car or to give you your money back. For you to mess with it is foolishness.

Hi Patrick,
Thank You alo to All who have advised me on this matter! Auctions America advertised this car all across the country as a 1958 Corvette. I'm brand new to Corvettes and really don't know much above older Corvettes. Should I put this back on Auctions Amercia company from Aurburn, Indiana? Will they even talk to me since I have payed for the car two weeks ago?
If I have to get Lawyers involved in this, you know who wins there-- only the lawyers!

Oh, but my red Corvette is Nice!

Thanks in Advance,
Hugh
From Virginia

[Jim D.]

Re: My Vin Plate and Frame Number don't match?

Should I put this back on Auctions Amercia company from Aurburn, Indiana? Will they even talk to me since I have payed for the car two weeks ago?If I have to get Lawyers involved in this, you know who wins there-- only the lawyers! Hugh

Absolutely contact them but be nice, at first. Explain the problem and that the only acceptable resolution is for you to return the car and they return your money. If they're reputable, they won't have a problem with it. If they give you the run around, tell them you're going to let your attorney handle it because you're well aware that switching VIN tags is a felony that wins you an all inclusive paid vacation at the Gray Bar Hotel. I would then file a fraud complaint with the BBB and the State Attorney Generals office which doesn't cost a dime. After those two contact the auction company, I'll bet they'll be glad to refund your money. Good luck.

[William C.]

Re: My Vin Plate and Frame Number don't match?

Joe and I are coming from the same place! BTW, in my state, an inspection is required when a vehicle comes in from out of state, Some are VERY thorough..

[Domenic T.]

Re: My Vin Plate and Frame Number don't match?

Hugh,
I don't think the owners actually would steal a vette but what I will say is that when I worked in a body shop back then, they would call all junk yards for a frame, engine, trans, or any body part and FIX the problem.
I agree about the theft BUT many cars have different frames, especially before frame racks came into wide use. I remember half dozen frames being bought LEGALY and put under another car, paperwork was on the customer bill as " purchased used frame".
All the advice here is good but your vette could be a wrecked, stolen, of repaired one. The worst I see here is do not have it judged, drive it and enjoy it if you do not get your money back. Back in the 50's things were done differently.
By the way, all the frame changes did in the body shop where I worked were LEGAL. Most were engine #s that were looked at and most junk yard stuff was checked out as they bought it. Then came the chop shops!!

DOM

[William C.]

Re: My Vin Plate and Frame Number don't match?

The problem is the VIN number the police will check on the car does NOT match the Title to be a '59 car. In my state (ohio) which requires an inspection for an out-of state purchase, The car would be impounded immediately.

[Stephen R.]

Re: My Vin Plate and Frame Number don't match?

Back in the early 70's when I first got into Corvettes, I would go to car sales, flea markets etc. I would begin to see some guys over and over again. They were buying titles, vin plates, etc and building cars. I sold my 54, body and frame (no engine or trans) car to a guy who stated that I was his 3rd 54 that he bought in six months. i asked what he was doing and he stated he was going to build one car out of the three parts cars he had. I doubt that that car's frame vin would agree with the plate vin.

[Jim D.]

Re: My Vin Plate and Frame Number don't match?

Hugh,I don't think the owners actually would steal a vette but what I will say is that when I worked in a body shop back then, they would call all junk yards for a frame, engine, trans, or any body part and FIX the problem.I agree about the theft BUT many cars have different frames, especially before frame racks came into wide use. I remember half dozen frames being bought LEGALY and put under another car, paperwork was on the customer bill as " purchased used frame". All the advice here is good but your vette could be a wrecked, stolen, of repaired one. The worst I see here is do not have it judged, drive it and enjoy it if you do not get your money back. Back in the 50's things were done differently. By the way, all the frame changes did in the body shop where I worked were LEGAL. Most were engine #s that were looked at and most junk yard stuff was checked out as they bought it. Then came the chop shops!!DOM

This is not a simple "frame change". It is a complete 59 car with a 58 VIN tag. Can you say "FELONY"? The worst that WILL happen is that the car is confiscated when he tries to title it.