Owner's packet question

[Marc S.]

Re: Owner's packet question

After all this -- Is it correct to say for judging purposes; the owners packet should contain the "New Vehicle Warranty" booklet, but not necessarily needed is the actual metal P-O-P piece?



Doe anyone know if GM supplied the P-O-P with the car's vehicle information embossed on it and the dealer supplied (taped) the owner's name and info on to the plate? Or in the alternative did the dealer have a supply of blank P-O-P's and did it all?

Roy's announcent did not address the "New Vehicle Warranty booklet so I would the packet should contain it. You do not need the POP inside as it is not required or judged. Now Roy did say that the POP was the only GM document judged. Therefore, the information on the booklet (name of dealer, owners name, address, etc shouldn't be judged either). I am not 100 percent sure of this but that is what it means to me. So if you have a booklet that is blank or you wrote Mickey Mouse in as the owner you should be good. It would also be wise to make sure you have a booklet that is the same year as your car.

[Michael W.]

Re: Owner's packet question

I have a hard time understanding why the POP, etc.. was removed from judging. Doesn't the POP help add to the authenticity the car? ...........
Does anyone know why the POP is no longer judged?

NCRS does not authenticate cars during judging is one good reason.

[Michael J.]

Re: Owner's packet question

That all sounds correct Marc. I am not fully versed in "NCRS Speak", so when they say something is "not judged" I am never sure what that means. That is why I was confused and trying to understand about the parenthetical expression in the '67 TIM&JG. If it says "POP is not judged", especially after an existing sentence that clearly says you need a POP with the correct VIN for the vehicle, it is not clear to me that means, it doesn't have to be there at all or they just don't care what is on the metal plate. I really think wording in the manuals should be clear to a novice as well as a Master Judge. I also now have learned, thanks to this thread, that I should read the Restorer much more closely, as it could contain very significant additions and deletions to all TIM&JG manuals.

[Terry M.]

Re: Owner's packet question

OK, I'm trying to understand, so in other words, a portion of the words written in the 5th Edition TIM&JG for the '67, issued Sept., 2013 that says the glove box contents must include:'"Owner Protection Plan Warranty Booklet including Protect-O-Plate with correct VIN matching the car"...are thus null and void. You do NOT have to have a POP that contains the correct VIN for the car, but you do need a warranty book from 1967, correct? I know the inner circle judges may have known this for months, but us non-inner circle judges who just have cars judged do not, at least speaking for myself.

Mike,
Roy wrote those words in The Restorer. It was mailed to all of the members as of a year ago; some 15K + of y'all. How is it that only the 'inner circle' of judges know this and it is now news since it is posted here? I would think if it was posted here it would only be known to the 'inner circle' who frequents this board, and then even the 'inner circle' of judges wouldn't know.

Marc, the OP, was not a member a year ago, so we need to inform him and others who have joined since. Since the TIM&JGs are updated so infrequently they are not a good means of communicating these major changes. At the NCRS tent at the Florida Regional I was impressed with how many TIM&JGs there are. I counted 21 different guides.

This board isn't the best place either because a minority of members visit here. The Rrestorer is the only method that goes to all of the membership in a timely fashion, but there is no way to get the member to read the judging chairman's messages; and those who have joined since that issue was published are in the dark. The only solution I can think of is to hire one of those flashing highway signs and put it at the entrance to every meet announcing the latest changes to one and all; but then those members who can't/won't/don't come to the meets are left in the dark. I can think on no good answer, can you?

[Marc S.]

Re: Owner's packet question

NCRS does not authenticate cars during judging is one good reason.

For the first time EVER I have to disagree with you. I know I am in big trouble now but I am now more brave since attending my first ncrs event and seen first hand how cars are judged. There were at least two cars that were not judged because the were derermined to lets but it lightly had issues. If that isnt an authentication process right there then I don't know what is. Okay shields are up!!!!! Haha

[Dick W.]

Re: Owner's packet question

That all sounds correct Marc. I am not fully versed in "NCRS Speak", so when they say something is "not judged" I am never sure what that means. That is why I was confused and trying to understand about the parenthetical expression in the '67 TIM&JG. If it says "POP is not judged", especially after an existing sentence that clearly says you need a POP with the correct VIN for the vehicle, it is not clear to me that means, it doesn't have to be there at all or they just don't care what is on the metal plate. I really think wording in the manuals should be clear to a novice as well as a Master Judge. I also now have learned, thanks to this thread, that I should read the Restorer much more closely, as it could contain very significant additions and deletions to all TIM&JG manuals.

Historically major changes such as this are announced prior to the winter meet in Florida. New manuals are usually implemented after the National Convention, so as not to give car owners going for their Duntov, McClellan, etc awards a surprise prior to their final judging. It has been this way as far back as when Roy Sinor was appointed National Judging Chair, maybe even as far back as Dennis Clark's tenure as such. Nothing new in the process, just fine tuning the system

[Michael J.]

[Michael J.]

Re: Owner's packet question

Historically major changes such as this are announced prior to the winter meet in Florida. New manuals are usually implemented after the National Convention, so as not to give car owners going for their Duntov, McClellan, etc awards a surprise prior to their final judging. It has been this way as far back as when Roy Sinor was appointed National Judging Chair, maybe even as far back as Dennis Clark's tenure as such. Nothing new in the process, just fine tuning the system

Thanks Dick, that is also new information for me...

[Marc S.]

Re: Owner's packet question

Michael johnson pleae clear out your inbox. Tried sending you a message.

[Michael J.]

Re: Owner's packet question

Done, try again.

[Terry M.]

Re: Owner's packet question

For the first time EVER I have to disagree with you. I know I am in big trouble now but I am now more brave since attending my first ncrs event and seen first hand how cars are judged. There were at least two cars that were not judged because the were derermined to lets but it lightly had issues. If that isnt an authentication process right there then I don't know what is. Okay shields are up!!!!! Haha

Marc
1) There were more than two cars at that meet that were not judged due to, as you so delicately put it, ISSUES.
2) There were many more cars at that meet that had 'non-authentic' parts on them. Some of them (maybe even many of them) had re-stamped engines, perhaps not even their original factory installed engines. Those were all judged; but that in no way means they were authentic. Did you get one of those green laminated sheets from the Thursday Judging School? See the last paragraph for the ISSUES that will cause a Corvette to not be judged under our system.

Let's define terms so we are all on the same page.
Authentic = the parts installed by assembly line workers at the various Corvette Assembly plants in their unaltered state.

The third word of our name is RESTORER(S). We restore Corvettes. The very act of Restoration makes parts non-authentic by the above definition.

OK so you say the above definition of authentic is not yours? Then tell me what yours is.

BTW:This discussion may merit its own thread, since we are now going far afield of the original question.

[Terry M.]

Re: Owner's packet question

And if you are asking me what "Do not judge POP" means exactly in the context of the previous paragraph - I don't have an answer for you either. Actually the entire 'inner circle' of judges doesn't need to know how this is interpreted. That is between Car Owner, Interior Judges, Team Leader, and National Team Leader. That makes it a pretty small inner circle that does not include me. Are you having your car judged soon? It might not even include you. But I understand that stirring the pot is so much fun.

[Michael J.]

Re: Owner's packet question

And if you are asking me what "Do not judge POP" means exactly in the context of the previous paragraph - I don't have an answer for you either. Actually the entire 'inner circle' of judges doesn't need to know how this is interpreted. That is between Car Owner, Interior Judges, Team Leader, and National Team Leader. That makes it a pretty small inner circle that does not include me. Are you having your car judged soon? It might not even include you. But I understand that stirring the pot is so much fun.

I appreciate your honesty Terry, as usual…. But, as you may know, my '67 will soon be history (I was prepping it for Nationals judging, but decided on a different direction a couple of weeks ago), and luckily, the '64 that will start through judging has no POP. But, I was always proud of my '67's POP and it always impressed the judges, it is a pity that will no longer be the case. But I am still curious about what certain words mean to experienced NCRS folks, I have found what some consider a common language will many times separate people who think they know what they are saying and hearing…..

[Michael W.]

Re: Owner's packet question

For the first time EVER I have to disagree with you. I know I am in big trouble now but I am now more brave since attending my first ncrs event and seen first hand how cars are judged. There were at least two cars that were not judged because the were derermined to lets but it lightly had issues. If that isnt an authentication process right there then I don't know what is. Okay shields are up!!!!! Haha

Marc- there's two components that are presently being authenticated- the VIN and tag and trim tag. As you witnessed these must be acceptable for the car to be judgeable. Beyond that, there's nothing that's is authenticated, so the statement that the car is not authenticated is correct.

[David B.]

Re: Owner's packet question

Let's see if I can clarify this (in addition to several members above who got it right). Effective 1/1/2013, we no longer place any judging weight or value on the C2/C3 P-O-P or C4 ID Card. If you have one with your car, the judges will disregard it; if you don't have one, you will not be penalized. The TIMJG's can continue to describe the P-O-P or ID card in furtherance of the non-judging aspects of those books. If a judge penalizes you for a P-O-P or ID card matter, take it to your Team Leader. If your Team Leader does not correct the problem, contact me. Dave