Owner's packet question

[Michael J.]

Re: Owner's packet question

Thank you Dave, much appreciated clarification with distinctions.

[Marc S.]

Re: Owner's packet question

Marc- there's two components that are presently being authenticated- the VIN and tag and trim tag. As you witnessed these must be acceptable for the car to be judgeable. Beyond that, there's nothing that's is authenticated, so the statement that the car is not authenticated is correct.

I do but think it is appropriate to discuss the actual cars that I saw and the discussions I heard on this forum. So I still use my car as a reference. Lets say for example I am having my car judged. I am told by the team leader that there is evidence that my car was born with a 350 and not as a 454 and my car will not be judged. So I paid a ton of money for a 454 as it was advertised but I am told the CAR was originally a 350. That is the car. The car is rejected and I have to figure out why the heck I got duped in the same. A very sad situation indeed.

[Marc S.]

Re: Owner's packet question

Marc
1) There were more than two cars at that meet that were not judged due to, as you so delicately put it, ISSUES.
2) There were many more cars at that meet that had 'non-authentic' parts on them. Some of them (maybe even many of them) had re-stamped engines, perhaps not even their original factory installed engines. Those were all judged; but that in no way means they were authentic. Did you get one of those green laminated sheets from the Thursday Judging School? See the last paragraph for the ISSUES that will cause a Corvette to not be judged under our system.

Let's define terms so we are all on the same page.
Authentic = the parts installed by assembly line workers at the various Corvette Assembly plants in their unaltered state.

The third word of our name is RESTORER(S). We restore Corvettes. The very act of Restoration makes parts non-authentic by the above definition.

OK so you say the above definition of authentic is not yours? Then tell me what yours is.

BTW:This discussion may merit its own thread, since we are now going far afield of the original question.

I agree with the very end of your post. Buckle your seat belt folks. Another thread is coming to a ncrs forum near you!

[Reba W.]

Re: Owner's packet question

Dave, thank you for that clarification.

After reading some of these posts, I feared I had been judging incorrectly for the last year.
By the way, Roy's complete article did go on to give the rationale for the decision. As one might guess, it had to do with authentication.

[Michael W.]

Re: Owner's packet question

I do but think it is appropriate to discuss the actual cars that I saw and the discussions I heard on this forum. So I still use my car as a reference. Lets say for example I am having my car judged. I am told by the team leader that there is evidence that my car was born with a 350 and not as a 454 and my car will not be judged. So I paid a ton of money for a 454 as it was advertised but I am told the CAR was originally a 350. That is the car. The car is rejected and I have to figure out why the heck I got duped in the same. A very sad situation indeed.

First, the car in question would continue to be judged albeit the point deductions would heavy. The owner then may choose to find a suitable 350 to replicate what the factory installed. At a subsequent judging meet, the new 350 may not take any deductions due to the extensive restoration efforts of the owner. Would you say that the car has now been 'authenticated' in some sense?

[Marc S.]

Re: Owner's packet question

First, the car in question would continue to be judged albeit the point deductions would heavy. The owner then may choose to find a suitable 350 to replicate what the factory installed. At a subsequent judging meet, the new 350 may not take any deductions due to the extensive restoration efforts of the owner. Would you say that the car has now been 'authenticated' in some sense?

Easy there Tiger! A new thread is in development. We are gonna keep this one dealing with the Owners Packet as this is actually a very important topic.

I am working on a new one. I have to come up with a nice first post. Stay tuned!

[Marc S.]

Re: Owner's packet question

Update:

I found these items and paid very very little for them. Not the hundreds of dollars I have seen them advertised for by some folks. I like that I have one warranty that is filled out from (Michigan) where my car was sold (not same dealer though) and a NOS blank one as well. Will look great in my folder of documents and other novelty items I found. I can use the warranty and protecto plate for judging purposes as well.

[Dave S.]

Re: Owner's packet question

I understand. Then shouldn't the same thought process be applied to many of the other components that are counterfeit. I am a strong advocate the decision to not judge the owner's packet along with its content, i.e. POP etc was a mistake. After all many, many dollars are spent annually on counterfeit parts and ultimately end up NCRS judged cars. The good judges are able to discern counterfeit from a true and correct component and appropriately reflect it their point tabulation.

If a restorer wishes to spend a lot of money for counterfeit parts that should be between him, his wallet and his conscience. The NCRS should return to judging the Owner's packet and it's content. Just my thoughts.

To take Dick's point one step further the inference was that if the Warranty Book and POP passed judging that it must be real. The NCRS did not want to be tied to a theoretical approval of the POP. Just my opinion but for that reason I think it was a good idea to remove it from the judging process. Since the edict was made public when I judge I have removed the warranty book and POP from the equation and allocated points accordingly. I think to include a warranty book only is also a reasonable way to judge as well.

[Alan S.]

Re: Owner's packet question

Hi Marc,
The 1971 Chevrolet Consumer Information Booklet is a VERY nice item to have obtained!
They're printed on relatively fragile paper and are sometimes in pretty poor condition.
Regards,
Alan

[Marc S.]

Re: Owner's packet question

Hi Marc,
The 1971 Chevrolet Consumer Information Booklet is a VERY nice item to have obtained!
They're printed on relatively fragile paper and are sometimes in pretty poor condition.
Regards,
Alan

Alan, yeah I seemed to have hit a grand slam homerun on this one as I was
really after a real protecto plate and warranty booklet.
These items would have costed a LOT of money if I took the easy way
out and just bought them from a certain person.

The consumer booklet I have doesn not say corvette like yours but has other models
listed but it is a nice bonus.

It is nice to have the option to purchase such items but sometimes if you
are patient you end up finding a ruby in the sand on your own.

With that said I am also looking for key envelopes. I think this person has
them but you will pay $$$$. If you need these desperately I can give
you contact into. Otherwise, good luck on your search!

[Michael J.]

Re: Owner's packet question

Good catch Marc! These things are just really nice to have, they always make an impression at car shows I go to. Some cars are easier to find them for than others. I am still searching, after several years, for a '69 Cougar XR7 R code warranty facts book set.

[Martin M.]

Re: Owner's packet question

Michael, there is no "inner circle" of judges, just folks who give of their time and money to perform the judging function. I have a "Master Judge" hat that I earned over many years. I have talked with many judges, and many car owners, and looked at 100's of cars so I might be able to correctly ID these cars, and their parts. When I started I was being selfish, since I had a SW coupe that I wanted to have judged. As I progressed I realized it was not the right car, but I learned a lot about '63.

One of the things I have learned is not to pay much attention to one and two point items until I hit all the big stuff.

Marty

j

[Dave S.]

Re: Owner's packet question

Update:

I found these items and paid very very little for them. Not the hundreds of dollars I have seen them advertised for by some folks. I like that I have one warranty that is filled out from (Michigan) where my car was sold (not same dealer though) and a NOS blank one as well. Will look great in my folder of documents and other novelty items I found. I can use the warranty and protecto plate for judging purposes as well.

Is the ConsumerInfo Booklet for a Corvette.??? You covered up the place where the model is written. The other pieces are not correct for a Covette so I hope you did no brek the bank.

[Marc S.]

Re: Owner's packet question

Is the ConsumerInfo Booklet for a Corvette.??? You covered up the place where the model is written. The other pieces are not correct for a Covette so I hope you did no brek the bank.

Nope not for corvette. Did not break bank at all. One andrew jackson and a few abe lincolns for everything shown.

[Michael J.]

Re: Owner's packet question

Michael, there is no "inner circle" of judges, just folks who give of their time and money to perform the judging function. I have a "Master Judge" hat that I earned over many years. I have talked with many judges, and many car owners, and looked at 100's of cars so I might be able to correctly ID these cars, and their parts. When I started I was being selfish, since I had a SW coupe that I wanted to have judged. As I progressed I realized it was not the right car, but I learned a lot about '63.

One of the things I have learned is not to pay much attention to one and two point items until I hit all the big stuff.

Marty

j

Thanks, good to know. I am no where near any circle of NCRS after 6 years. But, if you actually live in Pahrump, I get through 3 times a year with my various cars at Spring Mountain and numerous trips to Death Valley and the Mojave for geology. Love the place and the fast track for my cars, what an experience, cheers!