Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

[Ron L.]

I'm new to this BB car thing so hold the laughter please. Ok so I bought a 65 coupe. 396 4 sp. it's not original motor. It appears the 396 in it was cast late may 65. My car was built mid May. The block is decked. The car came out of a barn and I bought it from someone who had no idea ncrs existed and frankly couldn't care less. I doubt any faking went on since the car hasn't been touched in decades. Ok. Here's what I know...it has the rear sway bar..the beefy half shafts. The correct rpm gauge. Battery on drivers side.. Also it has the notches in the birdcage I've read about which was for side pipes. There is only PS as an option. Of course it has an original BB hood. It's a driver and I couldn't care less about judging and while I'm certain it's a real BB car. Is there a way to prove it to someone in the future if I ever sell it? Oh yea. It's a St. Louis body. Appreciate you all. Ron

[Bill W.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

Ron , What is your serial number ? You should check your rear end date and ratio codes . Also check the size of the front sway bar , the placement of your voltage regulator . I have the same problem , I have no paper work on mine but I have taken hundreds of pictures of 396 only parts . My car (17346) was built May 12/65 . I have been in contact with my past owners (4) and they are looking for information .Ron I see you live in Mo. What part . My car was sold new in St Louis and has always lived within 50 miles of St Louis . Good luck .

[Joe L.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

I'm new to this BB car thing so hold the laughter please. Ok so I bought a 65 coupe. 396 4 sp. it's not original motor. It appears the 396 in it was cast late may 65. My car was built mid May. The block is decked. The car came out of a barn and I bought it from someone who had no idea ncrs existed and frankly couldn't care less. I doubt any faking went on since the car hasn't been touched in decades. Ok. Here's what I know...it has the rear sway bar..the beefy half shafts. The correct rpm gauge. Battery on drivers side.. Also it has the notches in the birdcage I've read about which was for side pipes. There is only PS as an option. Of course it has an original BB hood. It's a driver and I couldn't care less about judging and while I'm certain it's a real BB car. Is there a way to prove it to someone in the future if I ever sell it? Oh yea. It's a St. Louis body. Appreciate you all. Ron

Ron-----

There's no way to absolutely prove it's an original L-78 unless you have original paperwork. This is especially true if the car doesn't have its original engine. ANY feature of an original L-78 can be added to a car. I'm not saying this happened in the case of this car but it CAN occur. So, any savvy buyer understands that.

By the way, original L-78's don't have "beefy half shafts". They use the same half shafts as non L-78 except that the L-78 half shafts are shot-peened. However, they do use STUB AXLES with caps to retain the u-joints instead of the u-bolts used for 1965 small blocks.

[Ron L.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

That's what I meant.. Stub axels with the caps. Thanks for reply. No big deal. I figured there was no proof but was worth asking

[Ron L.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

My car is 17480. I think we're screwed w/o paperwork. But who cares. I'm proud as heck of this beast. 396 w/ side pipes. The sound. It's ridiculous.

[Carl N.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

Best way IMO would be to try and trace the paper trail back to original selling dealer. While I have not used the service for documentation offered by NCRS you might give it a try. May build, rear sway bar, halfshafts, battery location, tach all point to L78, other features would be TI ignition (required on L78), radiator/radiator shroud/radiator support, fan, 80# oil gage, location of TI module, clutch/bell housing, clutch rod, fuel line location. I may have missed other features, but there are a lot of books and info on this site and others which will give you clues. Just remember that previous owner(s) could have changed many of the features unique to the L78. Another course is to have a person knowledgeable of the L78's look over the car. Given that you do not intend to go the judging route, don't worry too much about originality and enjoy the car for what it is. Save anything you replace on the car.

[Carl N.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

Ron, white coupe with black interior? maybe body #S314X, Texas Tags FLL782 last on car, last know location Lawrence, KS. if so check the rear dif as it may be from a 1966, also did you mean P/B not P/S.

[Ron L.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

I did the dealer service locator deal. I called the dealer...they were very nice and liked hearing my story but paperwork 48 years ago...they laughed that one up. You're right...it's a 396 side pipe mid year. I can drive it and not worry about every little thing. Less stress more fun. I just thought it would be fun to see if I could actually learn something from that dealer. I appreciate your two cents on it.

[Ron L.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

I'm an hour south of Springfield.

[Charles C.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

I've had a couple '65 396 cars over the years and to me the drivers side battery location always seemed to be a good telltale sign. I purchased a '65 Fuelie roadster project long ago that was actually an original 396 car. Most other items can be easily swapped or replaced throughout the cars life, but if I'm not mistaken only A/C equipped and 396 cars had that feature.

So if you don't have an A/C system on the firewall and/or a bunch of A/C related stuff under the dash, that might be a good indicator to work with....

Sounds like a fun car!

[Walter F.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

I have and 84 and tried the dealer paper work trail and hit a brick wall. It amazes me how some of you guys can get in touch with owners who's cars are twice the age of mine. I even tried a professional service to do a trace and they also hit a brick wall and this is and 84. Some of you guys are just plain lucky to find paper trails and past owners who owned your C1, C2 and C3.

[Larry E.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

Ron-----

There's no way to absolutely prove it's an original L-78 unless you have original paperwork. This is especially true if the car doesn't have its original engine. ANY feature of an original L-78 can be added to a car. I'm not saying this happened in the case of this car but it CAN occur. So, any savvy buyer understands that.

By the way, original L-78's don't have "beefy half shafts". They use the same half shafts as non L-78 except that the L-78 half shafts are shot-peened. However, they do use STUB AXLES with caps to retain the u-joints instead of the u-bolts used for 1965 small blocks.

Joe: If he would be lucky enough to get a copy of a previous title and it showed the "taxable horsepower" (Bore/Stroke Formula) to be a 396; would it qualify for
at least saying it was B/B car in the eyes of NCRS? Larry

[Wayne M.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

...If he would be lucky enough to get a copy of a previous title and it showed the "taxable horsepower" (Bore/Stroke Formula) to be a 396; would it qualify for
at least saying it was B/B car in the eyes of NCRS? Larry

To show the extent to which some people go, remember that famous maroon/maroon 396 coupe that was completely rebuilt (or ???), starting from the firewall with tags, and the Manufacturers Statement of Origin and the first title.

Note the SAE taxable horsepower is 53.6, which proves a 396 cu.in displacement.






c

[Edward J.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

Walter, can you get anything from the corvette museum? I know they have build sheets

[Gene M.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

To show the extent to which some people go, remember that famous maroon/maroon 396 coupe that was completely rebuilt (or ???), starting from the firewall with tags, and the Manufacturers Statement of Origin and the first title.

Note the SAE taxable horsepower is 53.6, which proves a 396 cu.in displacement.






c

Ron,
Your car has to be a hundred thousand percent more real that this fabricated POS wet dream case. Remember ya can't drive paperwork!