Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

[Walter F.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

Yes I got the build sheet and contacted the selling dealer. Claimed they have NO information on the car that old. Bergeys Chevrolet Telford PA. I even called the service dept and they said they had no information on the car which I find hard to believe. Carfax people only go back to 1992 where the car was whole saled and shipped to Florida. There it had two owners. The person I bought it from could only tell me the guy had a crew cut and he bought the car from a local paper. I narrowed the date down to when he purschased the car and found the ad. It had been about 15 years old. When I called the number I expected to have hit pay dirt. The person who answered said they never owned a Corvette and no one they knew owned one. The number must of been given out to someone else. The service I used came up with a name but that to was a dead end so I just gave up. DMV will NOT give you any information because of the law in most States prohibit such information. to be given out to the public.

[Bill W.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

Wayne the taxable HP on my Mo. 1965 title was 48 . when I bought it in 1980 the Il. title also says 48 . What would that tell you ?

[Bill W.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

Larry what is the bore & stroke formula . Was it different from state to state ?

[Wayne M.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

Wayne the taxable HP on my Mo. 1965 title was 48 . when I bought it in 1980 the Il. title also says 48 . What would that tell you ?

This is from a 23 Oct 2003 post by Duke W.

MSO federal taxable hp= # cylinders (times) bore diameter (squared); all divided by 2.5

Therefore, for 396 cu.in: 8 x 4.094 (squared) divided by 2.5 =53.63

For 327 cu.in (mouse motors): 4.00" bore: 51.2 hp

For most of C1's with 283 cu.in; 3.875" bore: 48.05 hp. {Must have been a mistake somewhere, Bill.}

For 1967 327's, or real 427 cu.in motors with 4.250 bore: 57.8 hp.

[Michael W.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

Walter, can you get anything from the corvette museum? I know they have build sheets

AFAIK, the museum has nothing pre-Bowling Green, and no one has anything pre-77.

[Ron L.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

Ron,
Your car has to be a hundred thousand percent more real that this fabricated POS wet dream case. Remember ya can't drive paperwork!

I gotta remember that one. Like I said up front. It's not original motor but correct type motor Knowing where it was hauled out of before it was restored there is no way this thing was faked up. The owners didn't know of or cared one bit about judging and all that. It was cosmetically restored 30 yrs ago. It's never going to be anything but a driver but I love this darn thing. I just wondered what people do to prove all this stuff if they don't have paperwork. All the tell tale signs are there and haven't been touched in decades. We'll before people went to stupid lengths to make up a car to a BB

[Michael H.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

Ron

Does your car have all original front fiberglass?

[Ron L.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

I don't think so. I don't know enough to tell. The man who brought it back to life in the 80's said it had old fashioned flares if I remember right when I got to speak to him. So I'd say 95% NO. Now the hood I'm 95% sure is original. Can side pipe cars have small blocks from factory? I would bet my house that the birdcage notches are legit that I've read about. No way this ol boy who had it put those there.

[Bill W.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

Ron our cars are only 134 apart . Mine is about a day older .

[John D.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

At this point it's all going to be circumstantial. If the VIN is in the right range and the rear axle code, ECL, engine compartment configuration, and stabilzer bars all support a big block diagnosis then it is was it is. Or it isn't.

[Michael H.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

I don't think so. I don't know enough to tell. The man who brought it back to life in the 80's said it had old fashioned flares if I remember right when I got to speak to him. So I'd say 95% NO. Now the hood I'm 95% sure is original. Can side pipe cars have small blocks from factory? I would bet my house that the birdcage notches are legit that I've read about. No way this ol boy who had it put those there.

If you think that at least the rear section of the fender top and bonding strip are original, look at the holes for the 396 emblem from the back side of the fiberglass. If the glass is original, there should be only three holes for the emblem. If it appears that at least one has been filled, it may mean that the car originally had the smaller side flag emblem from a small block.

If I remember correctly, the stud spacing on big block emblems is different than that of a small block emblem, but I don't remember for sure.

If no evidence of a hole filled and re-drilled in a slightly different location, this may mean that the car was an original big block.

The AIM should have dimensions for the holes in the fenders/bonding strips.

[Joe L.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

Joe: If he would be lucky enough to get a copy of a previous title and it showed the "taxable horsepower" (Bore/Stroke Formula) to be a 396; would it qualify for
at least saying it was B/B car in the eyes of NCRS? Larry

Larry------


I don't think it's necessary to prove that a car is an original L-78 for NCRS judging purposes.

Notwithstanding that, the number of folks that have an MSO for their car has got to be miniscule. Copies of the MSO were usually not provided to original owners of cars, let alone subsequent owners. I'm the original owner of my 1969 and 1992. I never received a copy of the MSO for these (or any other of the many cars I've owned). Also, in California, and I suppose other states as well, there is no reference to "taxable horsepower" on registration or owner certificates.

[Brian M.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

While doing owner research on our 67, I received a document from the Missouri DMV showing the taxable HP on 8 67 coupes.

[Mike E.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

If you think that at least the rear section of the fender top and bonding strip are original, look at the holes for the 396 emblem from the back side of the fiberglass. If the glass is original, there should be only three holes for the emblem. If it appears that at least one has been filled, it may mean that the car originally had the smaller side flag emblem from a small block.

If I remember correctly, the stud spacing on big block emblems is different than that of a small block emblem, but I don't remember for sure.

If no evidence of a hole filled and re-drilled in a slightly different location, this may mean that the car was an original big block.

The AIM should have dimensions for the holes in the fenders/bonding strips.

Good call Michael!

Here are the AIM pages from the 3 available emblems.









Mike

[Michael H.]

Re: Can I prove my 65 to be a 396 car w/o paperwork?

At this point it's all going to be circumstantial. If the VIN is in the right range and the rear axle code, ECL, engine compartment configuration, and stabilzer bars all support a big block diagnosis then it is was it is. Or it isn't.

Ron

I just measured the stud spacing on a 66 427 emblem (should be the same as 65 396?) and also looked up the dimension for a small block emblem.

The big block stud center to center is 1.875".

The small block spacing is 2.040".

That's a substantial difference and it would make it easy to see if one or both holes were filled and re-drilled to fit the big block emblem stud dimension.

If the glass is original to the car, and the hole dimension is correct, then you have a big block car.

Just about anything else I can think of would be easy for someone to fake.