top flight with different engine
what is the highest award a ncrs member can get if the motor on a previous judged car is replaced? let's say that in the past car has achieved top flight and now will be judged with another motor that the judges will view as 100 percent correct.
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Re: top flight with different engine
I guess I need to ask a question. Is the new motor the same as the old? Meaning same hp, same type of carburation, etc.
If your taking a 62 from a 250 hp engine to a FI engine, this will become a counterfit car and not judged. The cars VIN is already in the system and so are all of its characteristics.
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Re: top flight with different engine
John,
I am not sure on the C1 Corvette but it's my understanding the engine pad carries 88 points, 25 for build date with suffix and 25 for serial # and 33 for the broach machine marks (total 88).
If the block casting and casting date is correct I think the car can still get a top flight providing the heads and other items are period correct.Comment
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Re: top flight with different engine
motor will be identical except for date code and pad number.Comment
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Re: top flight with different engine
If the car is judged and found to be a counterfeit motor or car that will be noted on the judging sheets and the judging team or Team Leader will be notified. At least they should be notified!
If the new owner admits the (lets say stamped motor) the car can be judged and receive a top flight. If the owner denies I think he is turned over to the National Judging Chairman or Event Chairman for a little talk.
JRComment
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Re: top flight with different engine
John,
If I am understanding you correctly the new engine is not a re-stamp but a period correct cast # block.Comment
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Re: top flight with different engine
Some really interesting answers. Who's to say the previous engine was the original?
Without further details, the question is pretty much 'how long is apiece of string?'Comment
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Re: top flight with different engine
There are some C1's that have gotten 3 Top Flights with 3 different body colors!
Larry
LT1 in a 1LE -- One of 134Comment
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Re: top flight with different engine
The answer to John's question as well as any counterfeit concerns are clearly spelled out in the 8th revision of the Judging Reference Manual. Every owner considering entering their car in a judging meet needs to own and understand the content of this resource.
How long is a piece of string anyway Mike? And would the answer be the same for a piece of rope?Comment
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Re: top flight with different engine
[QUOTE=Tracy Crisler (40411);688830]The answer to John's question as well as any counterfeit concerns are clearly spelled out in the 8th revision of the Judging Reference Manual. Every owner considering entering their car in a judging meet needs to own and understand the content of this resource.
tracy, i do not plan on having another car judged in the near future, so i did not plan on buying a revision of the judging manual. without me buying a manual is there a problem with using an identical engine and could the car achieve a duntov award? (past top flight awards were by other owners and i understand all awards needed to get to duntov need to be awarded to current owner)Comment
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Re: top flight with different engine
Umm, first we need to determine how far is up.
John-
The question you're asking is almost unanswerable due to it's vague nature. A car is always judged on it's present virtues. The judges know nothing of it's past history so that's not relevant.
The engine, just like the rest of the car, will be judged as-is according to the current rules in force.Comment
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Re: top flight with different engine
John-
The question you're asking is almost unanswerable due to it's vague nature. A car is always judged on it's present virtues. The judges know nothing of it's past history so that's not relevant.
The engine, just like the rest of the car, will be judged as-is according to the current rules in force.[/QUOTE]
it is a shame if the ncrs does not have a record of the engine pad and date codes on cars that have already been judged. you end up missing out on a lot of valuable information and you have cars that are rebuilt to whatever the books currently show as correct. i would think the engine pad number on a car that has been top flighted would be an important part in proper restoration of a car and should be available to judges as the car goes through future judging.Comment
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Re: top flight with different engine
it is a shame if the ncrs does not have a record of the engine pad and date codes on cars that have already been judged. you end up missing out on a lot of valuable information and you have cars that are rebuilt to whatever the books currently show as correct. i would think the engine pad number on a car that has been top flighted would be an important part in proper restoration of a car and should be available to judges as the car goes through future judging.[/QUOTE]
John,
It is a shame, but it is true. Please look at the Summary Sheet that is on the page with all the score sheets:
That summary sheet contains all the information that NCRS currently maintains, and even that Summary Sheet goes back to the car owner after judging. Other than the engine size and horsepower there is no engine information maintained by NCRS. NCRS keeps the "green sheet" -- the one that has insurance and the owners signature and the scoring data from the Summary Sheet. However, I do know that some (maybe all, for all I know) National Team Leaders maintain their own records of the cars presented for judging in their class at the meets they attend.
Now consider that the NCRS judging information was computerized sometime between ten and fifteen years ago, and consider how many Corvettes were judged by NCRS before that. That earlier basic judging data was entered into the computer (by Roy Sinor) but that earlier data was not even as thorough as the present data.TerryComment
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