Z L1 question

[Patrick B.]

Re: Z L1 question

The yellow car has been restored 3 times. It is unlikely that any original paint or decals survived.

[Dick W.]

Re: Z L1 question

The yellow car has been restored 3 times. It is unlikely that any original paint or decals survived.

At least for times. Walker, Nabors, McKay, and in Kansas. I think it went through one ship for two restorations

[Bill M.]

Re: Z L1 question

orange car: reportedly owned by the original owner until just several years ago; reportedly has documentation (but I've never seen it); THM-400-equipped; no nose striping, at all.

Joe:

Corvette Fever did an article on the orange car in their March 2006 issue. Here are the original bill-of-sale and tank sticker from that article:

[Patrick B.]

Re: Z L1 question

Joe:

Corvette Fever did an article on the orange car in their March 2006 issue. Here are the original bill-of-sale and tank sticker from that article:

The existence of a ZL-1 engine built August 28, 1968 is very surprizing. This car was built in Sept 68 while the yellow ZL-1 was built almost a year later in Sept 69. This car is earlier than the white ZL-1 that people think is too early.

They usual story of the ZL-1 program would suggest that the engine was first installed in Camaros at the urging of Gibbs Chevrolet in Illinois. However, I think the Camaros were all built between January and June of 1969. If that is correct, then it is odd that a regular Chevy dealer sold a ZL-1 Corvette predating the whole Camaro production.

[Joseph T.]

Re: Z L1 question

As " I recall " one of our esteemed colleagues who worked for GM posted a document some years ago that showed 7 engines shipped to St.Louis and 5 returned. There is also a long ago story about a number of these engines on engine stands back in the day with one being started and blown on the engine stand ( at Tonawanda ? ).

I saw a ZL1 engine in person owned by one our famous colleagues in Florida that was cast on Christmas Day. Wonder what the union overtime was for that.

Joe

[Dick W.]

Re: Z L1 question

The existence of a ZL-1 engine built August 28, 1968 is very surprizing. This car was built in Sept 68 while the yellow ZL-1 was built almost a year later in Sept 69. This car is earlier than the white ZL-1 that people think is too early.

They usual story of the ZL-1 program would suggest that the engine was first installed in Camaros at the urging of Gibbs Chevrolet in Illinois. However, I think the Camaros were all built between January and June of 1969. If that is correct, then it is odd that a regular Chevy dealer sold a ZL-1 Corvette predating the whole Camaro production.

I believe the Camaro production with ZL1 started in December '68. They were on a mission to get the cars out there to meet the requirements of ?? sanctioning body so they could be raced.

[Edward M.]

Re: Z L1 question

Joe:

Corvette Fever did an article on the orange car in their March 2006 issue. Here are the original bill-of-sale and tank sticker from that article:

So I am bit confused. The motor number listed on the Bill of Sale is T0828MG. The Bill of Sale is dated 12/30/68. When this car was recently displayed at Bloomington, the engine pad had a engine code of T1022MG. Car's estimated build date is 12/13/68, so I figure the motor number on the Bill of Sale should be correct. I'm confused.

[Dick W.]

Re: Z L1 question

So I am bit confused. The motor number listed on the Bill of Sale is T0828MG. The Bill of Sale is dated 12/30/68. When this car was recently displayed at Bloomington, the engine pad had a engine code of T1022MG. Car's estimated build date is 12/13/68, so I figure the motor number on the Bill of Sale should be correct. I'm confused.

And the beat goes on. List price of the ZL-1 was $4,718.35

[Joseph T.]

Re: Z L1 question

Maybe best to just ask:

John about the orange car
Wayne about the yellow car
Dick about the white car

Typically the guy that owns and restores the car has some insight.

I had a chance to buy the white car a couple months before it was purchased by Otis Chandler. real or imagined Dick did a great job on the car. Wish I had purchased it then at $60k

Most of todays race cars selling for 7 figures are a shadow of their original self. But still wonderful.

[Martin M.]

Re: Z L1 question

The Bill of Sale shown has a sold-to name of John Mayer of PA. This is probably the good friend of Clem Zharobsky, also of PA. Someone with a little time and interest should contact Clem, who then hopefully contact John and get some confirmation data.

Marty

[Patrick B.]

Re: Z L1 question

So I am bit confused. The motor number listed on the Bill of Sale is T0828MG. The Bill of Sale is dated 12/30/68. When this car was recently displayed at Bloomington, the engine pad had a engine code of T1022MG. Car's estimated build date is 12/13/68, so I figure the motor number on the Bill of Sale should be correct. I'm confused.

In my earlier post, I misread the VIN in the sales receipt as a 209X range vin with a missing last digit, making it a Sept car typical of an Aug engine build. Clearly, it is actually a December car which is when the first two Camaros and I believe the white ex-Otis Chandler car were built.

However, the paperwork showing the original August 1968 ZL-1 engine is interesting because there is reason to doubt whether production ZL-1 blocks (with the Winters snowflake) even existed that early. The T1022MG engine in the photo is a laughable restamp whose date was probably chosen to match the casting date. Also, the original grain on an aluminum block pad, unlike that of an iron block, would be rotary milling marks not a smooth surface.

Even an October 68 production ZL-1 block would be very early. The December 68 Hot Rod magazine had a cover article about the ZL-1 engine and none of the photos show a production block or heads. The blocks of the cover photo engine (now owned by Kevin Mackay) and the disasembled engine in the article are both 0294550 castings not the 3946052 ZL-1 production block with Winters foundary snowflake symbols. The 0294550 casting is the 67 Charrapel and 68 Can-Am block with the strange side oil gallery for a dry sump application. However, contrary to some reports it did have a provision for a mechanical fuel pump and an ordinary oil filter so it could function normaly in a Corvette. Assuming, this Dec 68 article announcing the ZL-1 to the enthusiast world was written in October 68, why was there not a single picture of block and head castings that were actually ZL-1 production pieces if production engines were being built as early as August? Would the T0828MG engine have been built with a Can-Am block?

Similarly, the heads in the photos in the Hot Rod article do not look like ZL-1 heads. My production ZL-1 engine has 3946074 heads cast in December 68. They do not have plugs on the ends like the earlier closed chamber heads. The supposed ZL-1 heads in Hot Rod article all have plugs in the ends. It is unclear whether the are just closed chamber heads or were prototype or very early production ZL-1 heads manufactured with plugs in the ends. It is very interesting that the T1022MG ZL-1 has the plug in the end of the head near the stamp pad. I would love to know if it is really a 3946074 head.

[Dick W.]

Re: Z L1 question

High resolution photo of pad

[Edward B.]

Re: Z L1 question

Not sure if I can add much to this, but the first ZL1 Camaro was shipped from the Norwood, OH plant on December 30th, 1968 and delivered to Fred Gibb Chevrolet just before midnight on December 31st, 1968. The VIN of the Camaro was 124379N569358 and the suffix date on the engine was T1122MM (November 22nd, 1968).

Ed