"Shut Down" revisited

[Paul J.]

Re: "Shut Down" revisited

The thing that always puzzles me is Chevrolet built the Corvette as a sports car. Yet most buyers bought them to drag race. If a quick quater mile was all a person wanted would it be wiser to invest is a Impala, Chevelle, GTO, Camaro or some other mid size car with the biggest engine available? There was plenty of cars that could out run a Corvette when set up right. You could still go fast in a quater mile and have a little cash let over. I always felt the Corvette was made for a quick turn rather then going down a straight track fast.

True, IRS and FI were intended for road racing, which was what Duntov had grown up with and always had in mind. In the 50's and 60's, most of the rest of the world regarded sports cars as their performance cars. But the future Corvette buyers were growing up with hot rods which were only good for straight line acceleration and that was exciting enough. It could also be done anywhere, hence the muscle car era began. You are stumbling into the old Corvette sports car/muscle car argument.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: "Shut Down" revisited

My '63 Chevy 409/425 was never beaten by a 427 Ford...well, except for that one time. Anyway, the side by side that still gives me the chills was in a friends 406 tri-power racing a new '65 350hp Corvette when the Fords clutch let go punching holes through the hood, floor and plastic heater parts onto my lap but still winning the race!

P.S. I'm still mad at Ray Brock writing in a 1961 issue of Hot Rod that 409's were truck engines and too heavy to be competitive in Super Stock racing.

Are you sure the Ford 427 was a 425 HP. My best friend & later business partner had a 63 Impala SS with a 409/125 & I beat him every time. The 425 Hp came out mid year. before that you could only get a 390 or 406 which was a 390 with 3-2'S same as 67 Corvette 390/400. I made a lot of money because people thought my Ford was a 406. I think that ford came out with the 425 HP 63 1/2 just to beat the 409. Remember auto company's had a deal not to get into racing back then. Not long after I got my Galaxy 427 Ford came out with the Thunderbolt Fairlane light weight. I do agree with the other poster Corvettes were built to corner on road tracks not 1/4 mi. tracks. Again I don't believe any STOCK would beat a BB. That's why they were in a lower class. Check the times in that were run in the 60's

[Dick W.]

Re: "Shut Down" revisited

Walter,
Don't be puzzled.In the 60's it was all about drag racing.Still think" handling" is overrated.We've got lots of long straight highways in USA.Acceleration pushing you back in the seat is what feels good and what performance is all about. You'd have lost your money betting on a GTO "with the biggest engine" against a good SB Corvette. Personally say a '64 365 hp wax a-- on a '64 tri power 348 hp tri power goat.But yes, the Corvette, especially mid years, had (and have) a good balance of straight line performance and cornering with a good ride compared to some of the strictly muscle cars of the era.

In a half mile or longer, the "goat" would eat their lunch. No substitute for Cubic Inches when you drop into high gear.

[Michael J.]

Re: "Shut Down" revisited

Well, I came to Corvettes late in life (31), since as a teenager I could have never afforded a Corvette. My '62 Dodge 413 MaxWedge cost about 1/5 of what a new Corvette would have in '65. When I was growing up drag racing was the sport of the people, sports cars and track racing were for rich folk. Hardly ever saw a Corvette at the drags back then in my home town or state, heck saw very few Corvettes period, just too expensive. Corvettes were super cool cars, and all knew they were fast, and you admired anyone that could afford one, but since drag racing was where it was at, and on a very limited budget, Corvettes were never in that equation in my day.

[Robert K.]

Re: "Shut Down" revisited

Well my mouse roarrrred! On a dare (not one of my brighter moments) I took that thing with H70x15s and 4.11 gears to 8000 rpms in 4th. No goat was going to hang with me up there. I came up on Dead man's curve on the Washington Beltway (it has now been re-engineered) awfully fast and had a real pucker factor going around that turn. I couldn't get it slowed down. Very dumb!!!!!!!!!!

On another dumb dare, I had a friend riding shotgun ask, I know it's fast in a straight line but what about going around corners? We were planning to turn left, but decided to go straight. It was Little Falls Pkwy @ River rd. It went straight for about an 1/8 mile then made a hard sweeping turn to the right. I nailed it on green, went through the gears, hit the turn in 4th and never let up powersliding through the turn. I had no idea the car would do that, I should have died. I did race gokarts back then and the feeling was similiar. Those were fast 2 cycle engines like WestBends and McCullough reed valve engines and then came the Itallian rotary valve engines, stock and modified single and twins. One track we raced on (Danville NC) the twin engine modified karts hit speeds near 150 mph in the straightaways and inch off the ground. Sorry, just reminiscing.

[Paul J.]

Re: "Shut Down" revisited

...One track we raced on (Danville NC) the twin engine modified karts hit speeds near 150 mph in the straightaways and inch off the ground. Sorry, just reminiscing.

There is no Danville, North Carolina. Do you mean Virginia International Raceway (VIR) just south of Danville, Virginia? I also seem to remember something about some fairgrounds near there.

[Philip A.]

Re: "Shut Down" revisited

My 2 cents is that the winner will come down to a combination of tires and who does NOT love their car more. That is push it to near destruction point. One car will be faster than the other given a certain set of specifications to race by; but this is not about that. This is two guys racing each other. I have heard many stories of C-1s and C-2s with SHP motors beating big block cars and vice versa; so I think it comes down to who loves their car less.

[William B.]

Re: "Shut Down" revisited

After some disussion/bragging at a local watering hole about how fast my new '67 Corvette (4860 miles) would go around the infamous Horseshoe Curve in Southern Ohio I took two friends along to show my driving skills and darn near killed us all! Corvettes do not track well around hairpin curves if a rear wheel is in the burm. The guradrail saved us from the 500 foot drop-off but ripped the front end and rear corner off enought to expose my tank sticker. I was 22 but still have that car.

[William F.]

Re: "Shut Down" revisited

You're correct about Corvettes being created primarily for road racing and it's all good. However, with the corvettes' low weight/hp ratio, they did well in straight line contests, also.Many notable Corvette and Sting Ray NHRA victories in the Sport stock category. Stock half shafts and high hp BB C2's and drag racing were not a healthy combo, though.Also, like other poster said, Corvettes were cool cars;seemed to have more "female magnet"(G rated version used here) than muscle cars as well as being fast.Think magnet was NA with Powerglide. Remember the '59 or "60 red/white coves Corvette that the coolest character, believe named Greg, drove in Animal House?
Still deciding whether to challenge that BB Camaro. Mabe I should use my '67 427 L36. I'd have more cu. in.and torque than 396 Camaro but he has more hp and better gears (3.73 vs my 3.36 , both M21.)

[William F.]

Re: "Shut Down" revisited

My bad mistake!" Otter"-Eric Stratton was the cool guy driving the Corvette. Greg was one of the guys in the goody, goody frat.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: "Shut Down" revisited

My 2 cents is that the winner will come down to a combination of tires and who does NOT love their car more. That is push it to near destruction point. One car will be faster than the other given a certain set of specifications to race by; but this is not about that. This is two guys racing each other. I have heard many stories of C-1s and C-2s with SHP motors beating big block cars and vice versa; so I think it comes down to who loves their car less.

You might have heard stories but I never saw a HP/SB beat a HP/BB nore saw any times posted at the drag strip showing it. WE are talking standing start streight line 1/4 MI races. I am talking about stock cars with street legal tires.

[Walter F.]

Re: "Shut Down" revisited

Since were on this subject I got to ask. The 413 according to MT Mag did the quater in 13.44. Could a Stingray with slicks top that? The Mopar guys say no way.

[William F.]

Re: "Shut Down" revisited

Not so sure about that, Dick, especially the "or longer" part. HIPerf Corvettes will wind to 6500; Most all "Goats" run out of breath and valve train around 550. Lighter higher winding Corvette with same gears as GTO should have higher top end. Also, drag races are 1/4 mile (only 1000 ft. now for higher classes), not 1/2 mile or longer;sure you know though-just keeping on subject(vaguely).

[Dick W.]

Re: "Shut Down" revisited

Not so sure about that, Dick, especially the "or longer" part. HIPerf Corvettes will wind to 6500; Most all "Goats" run out of breath and valve train around 550. Lighter higher winding Corvette with same gears as GTO should have higher top end. Also, drag races are 1/4 mile (only 1000 ft. now for higher classes), not 1/2 mile or longer;sure you know though-just keeping on subject(vaguely).

We usually ran .7, .9, or in one case almost five miles. Stock small blocks would run out of steam with tall gears, not enough power, the large engines with taller gears would just keep on pulling.

[Jerry G.]

Re: "Shut Down" revisited

DSC04165.jpg

This is a all aluminum 427 Big Block next to me on front row at Road America. My car is a 331 small block. He beat me by a fraction of a second, he was a better driver with a better car, but small blocks do just fine. The big difference here beside the weight and HP is bigger tires and rims on 69.