For Sale Poll - Stupid Question

[Vinnie P.]

Re: For Sale Poll - Stupid Question

I've got an idea. Since it appears that only about 2% of the membership uses the TDB regularly, maybe sombody with writing skills could write an article for the restorer about the benefits of using the TDB, as well as a primer on how to access and use it. If we get more members to use the TDB we could probably make a stronger case for a "For Sale" section on the Board.

Thanks.

You mean a story such as this one that appeared in the spring 2010 issue...

https://www.ncrs.org/restorer/TDBStory.pdf

and there was another one by John Waggoner in the spring 2008 issue also...

[Jack C.]

Re: For Sale Poll - Stupid Question

How about making the For Sale Forum available only to members to post and purchase and then make it available to non-members to purchase only (such as a visitor). This way you can expose them to the Driveline advertisers on the For Sale Forum as well as encougaging them to become members where they can then post and purchase.

[Peter S.]

Re: For Sale Poll - Stupid Question

You mean a story such as this one that appeared in the spring 2010 issue...

https://www.ncrs.org/restorer/TDBStory.pdf

and there was another one by John Waggoner in the spring 2008 issue also...

Why not republish the story? How many members have joined since 2010? Since 2008? I would assume with each passing year, NCRS' membership is becoming more computer savvy.

I did not see the voting sticky because I generally blow right by the stickies into the meat of the TDB. If it weren't for this thread, I wouldn't have voted.

[Vinnie P.]

Re: For Sale Poll - Stupid Question

Why not republish the story? How many members have joined since 2010? Since 2008? I would assume with each passing year, NCRS' membership is becoming more computer savvy.

I did not see the voting sticky because I generally blow right by the stickies into the meat of the TDB. If it weren't for this thread, I wouldn't have voted.

The next issue of the magazine is already finished and is ready to be uploaded to the printer...the following issue (summer) will be long after the Board of Directors meeting in March when it will be voted on...that is if someone has taken the time to submit a well thought out proposal to the board.

[Terry M.]

Re: For Sale Poll - Stupid Question

Jack, thanks for the reply. I visited the sticky thread a number of times myself to see how the vote was going but like you say there have been only a little over 270 votes cast. While this has been a hot topic for the last week or so, if that's a count of all the members who regularly visit the TDB then I'm wondering if it makes sense to expend the effort even to put a business plan together for presentation to the BOD concerning a "For Sale" site.

Ken,
If you do decide to put a proposal together be sure to explain to the BoD why they should create a special class of members (those who would buy & sell on the TDB) to the disadvantage of the rest of the membership who still advertise or look to the paper Driveline. I suspect the BoD would want an answer to that issue, and that without an adequate answer a for sale section would be a non-starter.

[Rob V.]

Re: For Sale Poll - Stupid Question

The NCRS Driveline while fun to peruse, is to slow a tool for locating parts. As an aging Baby Boomer, I want instant gratification; specifically, if I want/need a part, I do not want to wait several months for a "Parts Wanted" ad to appear in the Driveline--I want the part yesterday. Additionally, my experience with the Driveline has been when I have called on advertised parts, they have been previously "sold". I also have not had good luck with other forms of Internet Corvette parts sales; and therefore, would rather deal with an NCRS member. Finally, I do not understand the comment concerning "...create a special class of members (those who would buy & sell on the TDB)...". Those who choose to buy/sell via a Forum on the TDB, are merely individuals who wish to use the computer to facilitate and expedite the pursuit and/or disposal of parts; and are still members of the NCRS. Give me a break...

[Terry M.]

Re: For Sale Poll - Stupid Question

The NCRS Driveline while fun to peruse, is to slow a tool for locating parts. As an aging Baby Boomer, I want instant gratification; specifically, if I want/need a part, I do not want to wait several months for a "Parts Wanted" ad to appear in the Driveline--I want the part yesterday. Additionally, my experience with the Driveline has been when I have called on advertised parts, they have been previously "sold". I also have not had good luck with other forms of Internet Corvette parts sales; and therefore, would rather deal with an NCRS member. Finally, I do not understand the comment concerning "...create a special class of members (those who would buy & sell on the TDB)...". Those who choose to buy/sell via a Forum on the TDB, are merely individuals who wish to use the computer to facilitate and expedite the pursuit and/or disposal of parts; and are still members of the NCRS. Give me a break...

I am sorry you did not understand my statement. I was simply trying to alert you to questions you will face if you chose to go to the Board. I will try to elaborate.

The NCRS judging system was created (admittedly somewhat after the founding of the organization) in such a way that there would be no competition between members. That is, there is no First Place or Best of Show Award. There used to be a Best of Show Award, but that was found to be counterproductive. We judge cars against a standard and everyone can get Top Flight in a class, or no one may win that Award, but there is not just one Top Flight per class. All of this was done so that there would be no competition between members. This situation, which was created deliberately, is what allows us to share information on the Discussion Board or in The Restorer. If we were in competition with each other none of us would share what we know for fear that would put someone else at an advantage over them. After all we all want to win the top award, don't we? And if there was just one top award we would all be chasing it.

In fact the scores awarded to cars are not announced to the membership for the same reason. The principle is that no one should be granted or awarded a status above anyone else, nor should anyone compete with anyone else.

There is no Lifetime Membership for the same reason -- although historically many have asked for that.

Those advocating a on-line For Sale portion of the Discussion Board will be asked why the Board should create a system that puts the members participating in that commerce at an advantage over those who do not. They will be creating a privileged class, and historically the Board has avoided doing that. I am putting you at an advantage by letting you know what I think will take place. The advice I am offering comes from many hours spent in NCRS Board meetings -- some of them over 12 hours long. I am told those days have thankfully passed, and I have not attended a NCRS Board meeting in a decade.. If you think I am wrong or out of date, that doesn't bother me a bit. I wish you luck because as I said in another post I don't have a dog in this race. I do look forward to the outcome.

[Rob M.]

Re: For Sale Poll - Stupid Question

Ken,
If you do decide to put a proposal together be sure to explain to the BoD why they should create a special class of members (those who would buy & sell on the TDB) to the disadvantage of the rest of the membership who still advertise or look to the paper Driveline. I suspect the BoD would want an answer to that issue, and that without an adequate answer a for sale section would be a non-starter.

Terry,

Where can I get the evidence for you assumption that the rest of the membership looks in (and buys from) the paper Driveline and why these people wouldn't want to use an online equivalent?

[Greg C.]

[Terry M.]

Re: For Sale Poll - Stupid Question

Terry,

Where can I get the evidence for you assumption that the rest of the membership looks in (and buys from) the paper Driveline and why these people wouldn't want to use an online equivalent?

I have no evidence that anyone actually buys or sells from The Driveline, and in fact as I have already said -- I never have. So I have no empirical evidence and I do not know where you could get any such evidence. Since transactions, if any, are between private parties I think asking for it is fruitless.

That said, why is there a loud cry from a few (likely the same few that want a for sale section here) when everyone doesn't get their publications on time? Do you think everyone wants to read The Restorer? Or perhaps everyone wants the next meet registration?

I can not tell you what the other 15K+ members want, but the results of the poll of existing on-line members is overwhelmingly clear. Of the 280 or so people voting, the for sale section was a bang on winner. BUT the total vote was less the 280 of those 15K+ members. Can I put that detail up in neon lights someplace for you? That fact cuts through all the discussion of how many members participate here, and how many page counts there are, and all the rest of that mumbo jumbo.

Let me spell it out for you. How many years has this tech board operated? Almost a decade? More then five I am sure. After all this time and upgrades to it there are not a significant percentage of members using the asset. If only 50% of the people using the board participated in the poll, and I very much doubt that is the case after all the drum beating in three threads, we still have around 500 or so members participating on the board. If one looks at what benefits the entire membership, there is no way to justify even the existence of the board much less a for sale section. Putting up that poll was a shot in your foot.

[John M.]

Re: For Sale Poll - Stupid Question

I'm honestly not getting this. I like the TDB. I like to go to chapter and regional meets. I like the Restorer. Don't really care much for the driveline sales as the part is usually sold before I get a shot. I've also advertized parts but virtually all were sold before the driveline was mailed because our chapter webmaster also sent out email blasts with my for sale stuff.
I think it's the sum of all the things NCRS does that makes it a great organization and the online for sale deal would be just one more cool thing for the members.

[Terry M.]

Re: For Sale Poll - Stupid Question

Craig,

Years ago, before the IT Team remodeled and increased NCRS on-line presence, the idea that advertising could support the coast of the board (at that time it was only a tech board that was proposed) was the point of discussion at several board meetings while I was in attendance. You have never seen me post that I believe The Driveline would suffer financially from a for sale section here. I have said that others, particularity some past board members, were concerned about that result if advertising were allowed here. My expectation is that same point of view would come up again if a for sale section were put forth to the BoD. Those advocating for a for sale section should be prepared to rebut that -- not to me, but to those raising that concern on the BoD. Believe it or not I am trying to help you because as I said elsewhere, I don't have a dog in this race.

As to the existence of this board -- see my response to Rob below. Short story: One could well make the argument the Tech Board should be eliminated. Here is your argument against that.

One needs to keep in mind that originally the Tech Board was the only NCRS on-line presence. Now there is a Membership site, and a NCRS products for sale section. I don't know how many members sign up/renew on-line. I suggest you find out.
I also don't know what the sales volume is for on-line NCRS product sales. It might, or might not, help your cause to find that out as well.
The Tech Board no longer is a stand-alone entity (even though a lot of us may only use it as opposed to the other parts of the NCRS on-line system).

As to my level of posting. I think that speaks to itself for my opinion of the value of the Tech Board -- but I think we all need to look at the bigger picture not just of the relevance of the Tech Board to NCRS, but the relevance of NCRS to the entire car collector hobby/business. We have been discussing trees and there is not only a forest out there, but many forests out there.

[Ray G.]

Re: For Sale Poll - Stupid Question

I don't really know if a "For sale" section on the NCRS website IS or IS NOT a good idea, or if it is financially or technically feasible.
It would be good to have a timely place where NCRS members would have the first opportunity to buy/sell parts and cars. Many members don't live in high population areas or for some reason are geographically challenged.
my .02

[Greg C.]

Re: For Sale Poll - Stupid Question

Terry
I can't agree with you more!

but I think we all need to look at the bigger picture not just of the relevance of the Tech Board to NCRS, but the relevance of NCRS to the entire car collector hobby/business. We have been discussing trees and there is not only a forest out there, but many forests out there.

PRECISELY!

If an organization with the depth of knowledge and passion about the Corvette only musters 300 online users, its doing something wrong.

Its membership is going for its online "fix" in other areas because it is not getting it via NCRS.org

I mentioned this in an earlier post, and it was scoffed at by some. But NCRS members populate and contribute to other boards in force. They are driving advertising $$$ that could be driven to the NCRS coffers.

Where do you go online to ask "Who is going to the NCRS National in Hampton this year?"... well, not the NCRS forum, as technically, its not "technical". Where do you go when you want offer condolences to a member who had a family member die? That really aint' technical either. Where do you go when you want to post pics of your grand kids going in your straight axle for their first ride?.... Well, technically, that ain't technical either!

We REALLY are missing the boat here, and there is no wonder why only .03% of the membership comes to the site.

I am not putting blame on anybody here... I am just saying that we are leaving a LOT on the table as an organization.

[Kenneth H.]

Re: For Sale Poll - Stupid Question

Ken,
If you do decide to put a proposal together be sure to explain to the BoD why they should create a special class of members (those who would buy & sell on the TDB) to the disadvantage of the rest of the membership who still advertise or look to the paper Driveline. I suspect the BoD would want an answer to that issue, and that without an adequate answer a for sale section would be a non-starter.

Terry, although I voted for an online for sale section, I'm only mildly interested and have no plan to put a proposal together for delivery to the board. Someone who feels strongly about the issue should take the lead in this endevour.