C1 - 1960 Door Panel Screws

[Donald H.]

I need some help on figuring out what screws to use to mount my door panels. I have attached a picture from the AIM (Section F - 12.00). Not including the arm rests, there are 11 screws holding the door panel in place. There are two part numbers referenced, item 5 is part number 162416, and item 1 is 162406.

I got door panels from Al Knoch and screws to go with them, but the screw set seems to be a hodgepodge. some #8 and some #10 and three different lengths, and the number of screws of each size don't make any sense!!!

Both Paragon and Corvette Central sell sets that look to have the correct number of screw, total of 22 or 11 per side, but both of their sets have two screws that are longer, i.e. 20 screws of one length and 2 longer. I assume they are all #8.

Looking at the AIM picture, there appears to be two of the Item 5 (#162416) screws used. I am assuming these are the longer screws as they go along the top of the door panel which is the thickest part. Then I would assume that all the other screws (9) are item 2 (#162406) and are the shorter screws.C

an someone tell me if all the screws should be #8s and if the longer screws are the Item 5 across the top of the panel? Since CC and Paragon sets only seem to have 2 longer screws, then there would only be 1 per side. That is part of my confusion!!!!!


Thanks,
Don

[Richard M.]

Re: C1 - 1960 Door Panel Screws

Don,

I just installed new AK door panels on the '59 here. The door panel screw kit I got had 22 screws. All # 8's. 2 were longer than the 20 other screws. I think the AK kit you got has many extras in case they're needed. Especially the #10's, probably for the holes that are likely opened up over the years after many panel removals.

The longer screws are needed at the top forward holes, as you say are the thickest part of the panel. Be careful if you need to drill holes there. It is right next to the door post protrusion, and not much fiberglass material there.

I would guess that the original AIM showed the same longer screw there also at the rear top of the panel, but is not really needed there. The shorter screw worked fine for me. Note that it also goes through the inner SS garnish molding, so if you nee to drill new holes there keep that in mind.

I used the special hole repair kit in all positions(riveted metal plates). This made the task much easier. Not used at the top rear, and top front where the longer screw installs.

Word of caution.....the panel may be too long at the rear. I had one. It was barely touching the body pillar door latch. I had to adjust the panel slightly forward to clear.

Also, FYI, if you got new AK armrests as I did, they will NOT fit without modifications.............
Firstly, the 1/4"-20 screws will not fit into the forward plastic holes, and the angle of those holes is way off. You must carefully drill to 1/4" diameter, then angle-drill out the backside of the holes to get the proper angle of the arm rest when installed. When you get to the rear hole(chrome end), it likely won't line up properly. I had to trial fit the front screws, loosely, then carefully find the rear hole(in the door access plate) to get it lined up properly. One lined up(notice the chrome end points at about center of the reflector), carefully trim a small piece out of the rear hole outer vinyl to locate that nut plate. It sits back about 3/4"" behind the vinyl. Loosely install the rear screw. Then gradually tighten the three 1/4"-20 screws in alternating tightness, and let them pull the arm rest into the panel.

Rich

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[Dan H.]

Re: C1 - 1960 Door Panel Screws

Hi, have a question on 59 door panel screws. My 59's had an extra screw in the front edge of the door panel just below the top front screw, it was in the thin strip just above the door panel metal. These were early/mid cars. They both had the holes in the door where these screws were once. I notice AK's 59 panels don't have a provision for these two extra screws. If someone has their 59 door panels off check to see if there is two additional holes a few inches below the front top screw. Check out Noland's book page 218 to see the extra screw.
Dan

[Donald H.]

Re: C1 - 1960 Door Panel Screws

Rich,

Thanks very much for the pictures. One additional question or even request. How does the front top of your door panel line up with the end cap of the dash pad? If I put my door panel where I think it should go, the front edge is a little above the dash end cap. Even more Than I think it should be.

By the way, yours look great!!!!

Thanks again,

Don

[Richard M.]

Re: C1 - 1960 Door Panel Screws

Rich,

Thanks very much for the pictures. One additional question or even request. How does the front top of your door panel line up with the end cap of the dash pad? If I put my door panel where I think it should go, the front edge is a little above the dash end cap. Even more Than I think it should be.

By the way, yours look great!!!!

Thanks again,

Don

Don, Thanks.....It a lot of work and I feel your pain!!! I had much trouble with the AK deluxe kick panels also. Way too thick hand laid glass. Took a long time test fitting and getting them lined up. And the sill plates cannot fit properly over the bottom edge of the kick panels. Original kicks are much thinner and pull into the sill area much easier.

Here are a few more pictures I took yesterday after I finished.

This is a '59, which uses the SS end "plates", not like the '60 full cap like yours. But you can see the panel is about even with the top of the dash pad. The dash pad is also a new AK pad. It seemed to have alot of padding at the ends, and I had to pull the ends down to finish it off with the end plates.

Maybe you have this issue, as I did.....When I test fit the door panels they were too high also. I had to open up the "catch" hole at the upper center of the door panel metal, where the top inner garnish catch clip locates. I used flat ended needle nose pliers to pry that catch hole open a bit more. It's very soft steel there. This allowed the front of the panel to drop downward a little more to help alignment. This also allowed the bottom of the door panel to be aligned along the horizontal length of the bottom of the door better. Just be careful it's not too low or it'll interfere with the sill plates once installed. All this and you have to keep the window crank hole centered too.

Rich

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[Richard M.]

Re: C1 - 1960 Door Panel Screws

Hi, have a question on 59 door panel screws. My 59's had an extra screw in the front edge of the door panel just below the top front screw, it was in the thin strip just above the door panel metal. These were early/mid cars. They both had the holes in the door where these screws were once. I notice AK's 59 panels don't have a provision for these two extra screws. If someone has their 59 door panels off check to see if there is two additional holes a few inches below the front top screw. Check out Noland's book page 218 to see the extra screw.
Dan

Dan, This March built '59 did not have the extra screws there, and it had original panels.

I see the extra screw on pg 218 on that '59 panel. But the AIM doesn't show it so I'm sure that's why AK & others don't put a hole there.

A guess, but maybe they added extras on the line if they felt a need, or a prior owner added it at some time.

Rich

[Dan H.]

Re: C1 - 1960 Door Panel Screws

Thanks Richard. My later 59 was vin 7049, still had the original door panels with the extra screw hole and a crimped in eyelet for it in the door panel. The AIM has 'redrawn' notes for April 59, wonder if they eliminated the extra screws then and revised the door panel. I have pictures of a 2300 mile 59 with the extra screw in the door panel also. It's vin 2819. I'd say owners of pre April cars should look to see if they originally had the extra screw and corresponding hole. Early 59s should have 12 screws each side, be interesting when the change was made to save that extra expensive screw?
Dan

[Donald H.]

Re: C1 - 1960 Door Panel Screws

Rich, I also had a lot of trouble with the AK Deluxe kick panels. I kind of wish I had restored the originals. They are restorable, need som glass patchwork, repaint and the waffle metal, but the SS trim was still on them. But I agree, the AKs are obviously hand laid and much thicker than the originals. The other problem I was having was getting the glass piece, the 'heater cover' to fit to the AK kick panels. I did manage to get my sill plates over the kick panels, but not without damage to the paint on the kick panels. The other thing that I noticed is that the paint on the AK kick panels will chip off real easy. It seems that the paint is not bonded very well to the gel coat, or whatever the release agent they used to mold the panels.

I did learn another lesson, and that is that the hole for the window crank needs to be pretty much centered. I was trying to line up the door panel to fit the edges of the door along the front, ended up with the window crank hole being to high, so when I test fit the crank the hole in the door panel was exposed. Oh Well - now I have to repatch and re-drill some of the screw holes on the door. Fortunately they are ones I can reach from the inside.

Don.

[Richard M.]

Re: C1 - 1960 Door Panel Screws

Don, Yes, the paint on the AK panels is junk. I have a gut feeling they didn't prime properly. I also feel they're too "red". Not true "orangey" Roman red. And yes the heater cowl cover was even worse than normal because of the thicker kick panels.

Did you open up that center catch hole on your panel to get it to go down more?

I know it's late in the game, but you may want to consider these.......If you ever have to remove/install the door panels, you will be glad.


Door Panel Screw Plates

[Joe M.]

Re: C1 - 1960 Door Panel Screws

Can someone post a closeup photo of what a #8 screw with #6 head looks like after installation through the cone washer? I purchased a door panel screw set from Paragon, don't know what size they are, but I can see the rim of the cone washer around the head of the screws. The screw heads are not larger than the cone washers.

[Joe M.]

Re: C1 - 1960 Door Panel Screws

Attached are a couple of door panel screws installed on my 1960. Not sure what is wrong with the screw head size in relation to the cone washer. I was told at Flight judging that they were "too big." I removed the screw in the second photo and it had a strange dish shaped washer that came from Paragon. The cone washer in the first photo came from a set of screws from Corvette Central. The dish shaped washers are probably not big enough and that makes the screw head look too big.

[Donald H.]

Re: C1 - 1960 Door Panel Screws

Attached are a couple of door panel screws installed on my 1960. Not sure what is wrong with the screw head size in relation to the cone washer. I was told at Flight judging that they were "too big." I removed the screw in the second photo and it had a strange dish shaped washer that came from Paragon. The cone washer in the first photo came from a set of screws from Corvette Central. The dish shaped washers are probably not big enough and that makes the screw head look too big.

Your question raises another question. The Al Knoch door panels have the cone washers, or whatever they are called, in place in the door panels, but the screw sets, especially the Paragon set comes with a full set of separate washers. The is not indication of a separate washer in the 60 AIM (section F sheet 12.00).

So, is a separate external washer to be used, or just a screw and the 'built in' washer only?

Here's a picture of a screw that I got from Al Knoch. I think these are #8 with smaller head, #6 size head.

By the way, I've looked around all the local hardware and auto supply stores trying to find the #8 screws with #6 head (without the captive cone washer) and was unable to find any. I did find a store with online catalog that specialized in auto related screws, bolts and washers. Their stuff isn't cheap, but as I recall they have a $10 minimum for online orders and the best selection of some the more specialized auto related stuff that I have been able to find. If interested it is Mr. G's Enterprises - Auto Fastners (out of Ft. Worth) and their web site is http://mrgusa.com/





Door Panel Screw.JPG

[Donald H.]

Re: C1 - 1960 Door Panel Screws

Joe,

Are the #8 screws with smaller #6 heads correct per judging. Is that what you got from Regional judging?

Thanks,

Don

[Joe M.]

Re: C1 - 1960 Door Panel Screws

I am trying to confirm that with an Interior judge. I noticed that there is a difference between the screw head size in your photo vs. the screw head size in my photo. Your photo shows a smaller head because there is more of the cone washer exposed. I read an archive thread that referenced #8 with #6 head. I will ask a friend to look up the screw part numbers in a GM fastener parts book.

[Bill M.]

Re: C1 - 1960 Door Panel Screws

Thanks Richard. My later 59 was vin 7049, still had the original door panels with the extra screw hole and a crimped in eyelet for it in the door panel. The AIM has 'redrawn' notes for April 59, wonder if they eliminated the extra screws then and revised the door panel. I have pictures of a 2300 mile 59 with the extra screw in the door panel also. It's vin 2819. I'd say owners of pre April cars should look to see if they originally had the extra screw and corresponding hole. Early 59s should have 12 screws each side, be interesting when the change was made to save that extra expensive screw?
Dan

My '59 (2528) has the original door panels with the two screws and crimped in eyelet for both in the door panel.