T3 headlights

[John H.]

Re: T3 headlights

I am looking at page 31 of my copy of the 1953-1993 Corvette Judging Reference Manual (7th Edition) and there is no statements about headlights. Perhaps you meant the '66 Judging Guide?

My '65 has the reproduction T3 headlights. I looked at my most recent judging sheet and the sheet (section 12 Headlight Area) states that there is a 3 points per bulb deduction. However, the exterior judging team deducted only 3 points for my four headlights. Can anyone explain the confusion?
-Clark

Clark -

You'll find your questions answered for headlamps in the "Headlamps" item #5 in the "Standard Deductions" section #4 of the Corvette Judging Reference Manual; it's all covered there.

[Page C.]

Re: T3 headlights

Hi Clark,
There is an 8th edition of the Judging Reference Manual. I believe thats when it was changed from per bulb to the max of 3 points .
Page

[Joe C.]

Re: T3 headlights

If you have a set of original TS'3 that work, and are not yet discolored inside, then it's a good idea to use silicone RTV to seal the areas in back of the beams where the electrodes come through the glass housing. They were originally sealed with a hardening sealer which crumbles with age and leak. I sealed mine as soon as I took them home from Carlisle 10 years ago, and have been using them ever since. Brings back the good old days at night where you can hardly see.

Been burning as bad as new for ten years now. Only cost me 5 bucks each.

Getting nearly impossible to find any more used ones that stand up to testing before buying. Even more rare to find beams that don't show black on the reflector.

Buying LL repops is money well spent, although amperage draw with the modern sealed beams probably overtaxes the charging system, I would think.

[John H.]

Re: T3 headlights

Hi Clark,
There is an 8th edition of the Judging Reference Manual. I believe thats when it was changed from per bulb to the max of 3 points .
Page

Page -

I pitched my 7th Edition a couple of years ago when the 8th Edition was published, but the reproduction T-3's have been subject to only a 3-point deduction for a full set as a "standard deduction" for as long as I can remember.

[Jim D.]

Re: T3 headlights

If you have a set of original TS'3 that work, and are not yet discolored inside, then it's a good idea to use silicone RTV to seal the areas in back of the beams where the electrodes come through the glass housing. They were originally sealed with a hardening sealer which crumbles with age and leak. I sealed mine as soon as I took them home from Carlisle 10 years ago, and have been using them ever since. Brings back the good old days at night where you can hardly see.

Been burning as bad as new for ten years now. Only cost me 5 bucks each.

Getting nearly impossible to find any more used ones that stand up to testing before buying. Even more rare to find beams that don't show black on the reflector.

Buying LL repops is money well spent, although amperage draw with the modern sealed beams probably overtaxes the charging system, I would think.

My 65 still has it's original, date coded, clear AND working T-'s. I took Joe's advice and resealed the electrodes. I'm now a little less paranoid that one will fail.

[Clark K.]

Re: T3 headlights

Clark - You'll find your questions answered for headlamps in the "Headlamps" item #5 in the "Standard Deductions" section #4 of the Corvette Judging Reference Manual; it's all covered there.

Thanks, John. I found the answer on page 22 of my Seventh Edition Judging Reference Manual. It clearly states that there is a 3 point deduction, per car, for a full set of 4 bulbs for "discernible" DOT markings.

It looks like NCRS is using outdated forms or just uses potentially-confusing terms on the judging sheets. The judging sheet that the exterior judging team used for my car at the San Diego National Convention clearly shows: "Headlights (3 points per bulb)". So, that means that each bulb is worth 3 points for a total of 12. Then, they deducted 3/4 of a point per bulb for a full set of 4 bulbs for DOT markings?

That was the source of my confusion, a perceived discrepancy between the judging sheets and the Judging Reference Manual. I am certainly glad that it is NOT 3 originality points per bulb since that would make it a full deduction (12) for DOT headlights.
-Clark

[Chris E.]

Re: T3 headlights

Morris,
The earlier reproductions had DOT embossed on the clear glass and was visible to the judges. The newer reproductions have the DOT on the back of the lens and out of sight to the judges. With that change the only way to differientate is the configuration of the filament itself.

Dave, have you see a current reproduction to validate that the DOT is no longer visible?

[John H.]

Re: T3 headlights

Thanks, John. I found the answer on page 22 of my Seventh Edition Judging Reference Manual. It clearly states that there is a 3 point deduction, per car, for a full set of 4 bulbs for "discernible" DOT markings.

It looks like NCRS is using outdated forms or just uses potentially-confusing terms on the judging sheets. The judging sheet that the exterior judging team used for my car at the San Diego National Convention clearly shows: "Headlights (3 points per bulb)". So, that means that each bulb is worth 3 points for a total of 12. Then, they deducted 3/4 of a point per bulb for a full set of 4 bulbs for DOT markings?

That was the source of my confusion, a perceived discrepancy between the judging sheets and the Judging Reference Manual. I am certainly glad that it is NOT 3 originality points per bulb since that would make it a full deduction (12) for DOT headlights.
-Clark

Clark -

There really isn't any discrepancy or confusion - the judging sheet just says there are three originality points assigned to each of the four lamps. If one lamp is an incorrect non-T3 replacement (like a Sylvania, GE, etc.), that lamp would get a 3-point deduction, or two would get a 6-point deduction, etc. The standard deduction shown in the Judging Reference Manual (3 points for a full set) only applies to a situation where a car has four reproduction T-3's that appear as original except for the presence of the little DOT marking. Experienced judges are well aware that there is a "standard deduction" paragraph that applies to reproduction T-3 headlamps, and they properly applied it to your car.

[Richard W.]

Re: T3 headlights

Is it possible to just purchase a set of reproduction low beams somewhere?
I have only seen them sold in sets of four.

[Donald H.]

Re: T3 headlights

Is it possible to just purchase a set of reproduction low beams somewhere?
I have only seen them sold in sets of four.

Here's what Lectric Limited says about why they only sell it sets.


Why do we sell our bulbs in complete sets (not individually)?

In order to comply with the current lighting standards, our new T-3 bulbs had to be manufactured to meet current federal lighting standards. Consequently, our T-3 bulbs are about 25% brighter than the originals. They do not project the typical dim, yellow cast as the original bulbs did; leading to difficult night time driving. (For those of you who are concerned about having your car judged, the level of bulb "brightness" is not a judging criteria - but at least you'll be able to see when you drive) If you were to replace only one bulb, you would instantly notice the brightness difference when placed side-by-side to your old, original bulbs.

[Chris E.]

Re: T3 headlights

There is nothing in the PV manual about checking the intensity of the headlights.

[Terry M.]

Re: T3 headlights

There is nothing in the PV manual about checking the intensity of the headlights.

But that does NOT mean the person performing the PV can not make an assessment of headlamp intensity, and fail the car for too bright lights. Just as a car can fail for turn signals flashing too quickly or slowly or a horn note that is improper.

[Chris E.]

Re: T3 headlights

But that does NOT mean the person performing the PV can not make an assessment of headlamp intensity, and fail the car for too bright lights. Just as a car can fail for turn signals flashing too quickly or slowly or a horn note that is improper.

Fair enough.

[Kenneth H.]

Re: T3 headlights

What if you have two original T-3 high beams and 2 reproduction low beams. Is the standard deduction still 3 points for the whole set? I ask because it's pretty easy to find original high beams, but the low beams are kind of rare.

Thanks.

[Dave S.]

Re: T3 headlights

Chris,
I called Lectric Limited to verify the current DOT marking situation. Based on information that I had previously I gave incorrect information on the DOT markings being on the inside of the lamps in my earlier post. They inform me that the DOT markings will always be on the lens as they have been in the past. Sorry for any confusion I may have created.